5: The Truth About Midlife Belly Fat (and How to Fix It)

A huge lie we’ve been told about aging is that belly fat is just inevitable.

And of course, we would believe this, because when you look around, many midlife and older women gain weight. So, you think it’s normal and there’s nothing you can do about it. And you might try to diet off and on because part of you doesn’t want to accept it, and another part of you says, “why am I doing this when it’s just part of aging”. 

The truth is that it is NOT just aging that causes belly fat. There is a very specific physiological response underneath midlife weight gain. 

And the best part is that it's fixable. 

Tune in to find out the whole story, the missing piece that no one is talking about, and how to turn the weight gain around.

You'll walk away from this episode with a new perspective and optimism about avoiding or losing the belly fat. Plus, the one action you can take now to shift your body starting today.

If you're ready to take action to nix your symptoms, including the weight gain, get your energy back, and live a joyful midlife, join the Midlife Red Tent program.

Find us on instagram:

Jen: @jenreimercoaching

Sheri: @sherijohnsoncoaching

Transcript

@9:47 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Welcome. This is the midlife rising podcast. It's Jen here and. Today, we're going to be talking about the midlife midsection, something that most women complain about when they hit their 40s.

But we're not going to tell you about the latest diet or how much protein to eat or what exercise program to get on.

We're going to tell you why it appeared in the first place. Because when you understand and change the subconscious beliefs that are driving the belly fat in the first place, you will naturally begin to make the changes necessary to rebalance your body.

And the weight, believe it or not, will fall off without you even trying. Today, I'm going to interview Sher about the real cause of midlife weight gain.

Welcome back to the Midlife Rising podcast. And welcome if you're new around here. We have a great topic for you today.

And one that I think is going to be pretty unique, weight loss. Haha, right? No, weight loss is not unique.

But what we're going to share about the root cause of weight gain, specifically in midwife, in midlife, is going to be.

So, Sheri, let's start with what most women think is happening when they gain weight in midlife.

@11:29 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Well, they're told, and so they believe it, by doctors and, all kinds of sources out there, that tell them that this is just what happens when you hit your 40s.

It's natural to gain weight around the belly. And it's a drop in estrogen, and there's no way around it, and so you just got to live with it.

And I think people just. Start to believe that after a while when you're told often enough, and you see, you know, most of the women in my life have picked up a little bit of weight around the midsection in their 40s and 50s.

And so when you... Are waiting for the dog to lay down? And so when you look around and see that everyone else has the same problem, then you start to think it's normal and it's not.

It's just common. We talked about that on one of our previous episodes, that we normalize things because we see it everywhere, but it's actually just common.

It doesn't have to be that way. And it is so true.

@12:56 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I completely expected when... have be way. It It you. That, like, before I hit my 40s, I completely expected that that's going to happen.

I'm going to get fatter around the middle just because that's the way it is.

@13:13 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Absolutely.

@13:14 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yep. So what do they normally try to do about it?

@13:21 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Well, I think they try to do everything that worked for them in the past. So they try to do what worked in their 20s.

They keep using the same exercise routines, the whatever diet that they were, whatever sort of lifestyle they were living, whatever diet they were following, or the way that they were eating.

might not have even been a diet specifically. They just, they try to keep doing that. Or maybe they try the latest fad, like the latest, you know, whatever people are talking about, the new trend as to how to lose weight.

And... And... And... And... And... It doesn't work.

@14:02 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

No, I know lots of women who, they try the latest midlife diet. Like there's tons of information out there about the, like the best diet to reduce the belly fat and the best exercises to reduce the belly fat of midlife.

There's tons of that. And I have friends who are, who've been trying to do that. It's totally like, it's not necessarily, I wouldn't, I don't think, no, I'm not the expert here, but I don't think it's necessarily what they did in their twenties.

Although the, the approach is the same as your twenties. And I did this too. It was like, I'm going to diet and I'm going to exercise and I'm going to diet harder.

And I'm just going to exercise harder and that's going to make it go away. Or I'm going to, that's going to fight it off.

I am not going to get it to begin with. That was my thinking.

@14:48 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. Yeah. And then you lost weight in a completely different way. Right. And so did I. At different times.

@14:57 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It of, it was weird. Like for. For me, I struggled with like, I don't know, 15 pounds extra for years.

Sometimes it got a little higher, sometimes a little lower. And I was always, I was never happy with my weight, always struggling.

And then I made some accidental changes when I was 40. And the first was I started adding good things to my diet.

Instead of trying to focus on taking away.

@15:34 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So that was the physical aspect.

@15:36 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So I started feeling good. Like I'd be like, okay, I had this great day. Now I am going to have a little piece of chocolate for my dinner or whatever.

So because I'd already, it was like, it was just a different approach to my eating. But the, the more important thing that happened was I, I was going to a lot of different alternative you.

Therapies and energies, energy healing kind of things. And I uncovered some subconscious beliefs that I had around my body and my weight.

And when I released those, it fell off without me trying. I was losing sizes. My entire wardrobe didn't fit me anymore.

Mm-hmm. So I lost more than the extra 15 that I was carrying around. I lost like 25. Yep.

@16:35 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

At 40, too.

@16:37 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yep.

@16:38 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. And the same thing, I'm not going to get into my story, but I lost weight at 50. How old was I last year?

Well, started to come off when I was probably about 50 and yeah, dropped like two sizes, like lower than.

my myself. Like when I was 16, like I weigh less than I did when I was 16.

@17:07 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Me too.

@17:09 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And I'm not specifically, like I didn't specifically try to do that. It was, it was all kinds of other stuff that allowed me to lose that weight and keep it off and not, yeah.

Okay. So we could go down a rabbit hole on our own stories. Yeah, I know.

@17:27 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So, okay. So let me, I have another question for you, Sheri. What, so let's go back to the body part.

What is actually going on in the body that contributes to this belly weight? Hormonally, physiologically, let's do that part first.

Okay.

@17:44 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So low estrogen, for one thing, we know that the ovaries lower their production of estrogen beginning sometimes in your late 30s, early 40s.

And that is actually linked to. So insulin is not as effective. It's not as reactive when, when your estrogen lowers.

So if your insulin is, yeah, yeah. So it's actually almost like a, it's not diabetes, although it can lead to that, but it's like that effect.

Your insulin is what manages, it helps to manage your blood sugar. So if your blood sugar, if your insulin isn't as reactive, your blood sugar is going to go on a roller coaster.

And, and it's all, your body is constantly trying to balance your blood sugar. It's one thing that it's trying to balance all the time.

And if it can't do that, some of that blood sugar that's circulating is going to turn into fat storage.

@18:55 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So let me just get the second thing. wait, Sheri, let me just get. this right. So my understanding is that when you have a blood sugar spike, like let's say after you've eaten a bunch of sugar, then insulin kicks in to try to reduce it.

@19:13 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Exactly. Does it also kick in when your blood sugar is too low and helps to raise it? Or is that something else?

No, that's cortisol. Oh, okay.

@19:24 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So before we get to that, then, so when insulin is not as sensitive, then you're going to get bigger blood sugar spikes than you used to, which is probably why a lot of people get more sensitive to caffeine as they get older.

@19:44 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, because caffeine also messes with your blood sugar. Right.

@19:51 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay. And then that extra, if your blood sugar is high, then that ends up getting stored as extra fat cells.

Mm-hmm.

@20:00 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Got it.

@20:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay. In your fat cells.

@20:02 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. Okay. So now tell me about this cortisol part. So cortisol. So there's two things about cortisol. So going back to what I said earlier, cortisol, when your blood sugar is at a low, cortisol kicks in to raise it.

So. I never knew that.

@20:24 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

You didn't?

@20:25 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Not until you told me a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. That's, um, that's one of its, one of its jobs is to manage blood sugar to help.

It works with insulin. The three work together. Glucose, which is your blood sugar, insulin, and cortisol. There's, there's so many other factors.

I'm, I'm kind of simplifying this, but if your blood sugar is low and you don't eat, cortisol will kick in.

If you do eat, then the cortisol is not necessary. Necessary. But if you don't, then cortisol is going to kick in and, and raise your blood sugar.

And what happens when you're on this roller coaster is that insulin and cortisol overshoot. So you end up on a roller coaster, instead of like, it should look like you're like, it's never going to be a straight line.

But it should look like, you know, ripples. If you're looking at a graph, like, like small little ripples in the water.

But if you have insulin and cortisol, and they're trying to manage like bigger spikes, then you're just going to end up on this continuous, like waves and troughs.

And that's what makes you feel it's responsible for so much of your energy. Like, you feel the trough. If you don't eat, like that's why you

You feel sugar cravings in the afternoon because you're on a low and then your body is telling you, go get me some sugar fast because we are way down at the bottom of this trough and we need some sugar.

But if you're kind of a fact of blood sugar, then you're not going to feel that. So if you're feeling cravings, your blood sugar is probably off.

And so your cortisol is going to kick in if you don't eat. And that's going to pull glucose from your cells and turn it into what you need in your blood, blood sugar.

@22:37 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So what it sounds like then is that when you get on the little rollercoaster, because they both are overshooting, it actually makes it worse.

You get on a bigger rollercoaster. So it's like a vicious circle. can. Mm hmm.

@22:54 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. And what can happen, especially if you start your day off with a whole bunch of carbs. It Like start your day with a donut and you're going to feel like sugar cravings all day long.

You're never going to feel like you're going to feel hungry an hour after you eat that donut because your body is just on this.

It's trying to balance back out. You eat like a high protein, high fat breakfast and that fat is going to satiate you and keep your blood sugar more balanced.

@23:25 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I noticed such a difference when I cut out carbs at breakfast and I didn't switch to bacon and eggs.

I switched to smoothies with avocado instead of banana.

@23:38 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@23:39 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

There's still a bit of fruit in my smoothie, but it's avocado instead of banana because bananas for whatever everybody says bananas are low glycemic index or whatever.

I get sugar rushes from bananas. Most people do. So, yeah, then there's like a lot of misinformation about there out there because when I was running marathons, that's what they told me to eat.

It was. Have a banana before I ran. And that, every time I did that, I hit the wall. Yep.

That was when I had the sugar low in the middle of our run and we were 12 kilometers from home.

So yeah, the biggest, like a very big change for me happened when I cut out carbs and sugar at breakfast and started eating like smoothies and yeah, without the bananas.

More fat.

@24:27 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

vegetables.

@24:28 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

More Yeah.

@24:31 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So anything else in the body before I have my next question? Yeah. So the other thing that contributes is that muscle mass contributes here.

So if you're working out consistently, then this isn't going to apply to you. But if you're not and you haven't been, your muscle, like muscles are either building or they are atrophying.

They're either building or... Or they're the opposite of that, whatever that is, diminishing, diminishing. And so if you're not working your muscles, then they are diminishing.

And it's your muscles that keep your metabolism moving. So if your muscle mass is deteriorating, then your metabolism is going to slow.

And then you're going to gain weight. And that's not just a, like that will happen in your 20s and 30s as well.

It just so happens that, you know, when you hit your 40s, you've suddenly not been doing really consistent muscle building workouts in your 30s.

And so then you hit your 40s and suddenly you're like, oh, this is actually taking a toll.

@25:50 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah, I noticed it. So back to me again. I always have an example for these things. So I practiced a very...

Strong Ashtanga yoga for 10 years, basically from 2013 to 2023. And I always thought that that was going to be enough because I was strong.

But now I've gone back to weights and I'm trying to balance my yoga and my weights now. And I have noticed I cannot lift what I used to be able to lift.

Yeah. And now I'm annoyed with myself because I could have retained that muscle mass. So now I'm rebuilding it.

But I can see how easily that can happen. Like I was still doing this. It wasn't like I was inactive.

I was still walking. I was still running here and there. And my muscles still declined. Mm hmm.

@26:44 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep. Yeah. So it's, it's not that you can't get them back, but you have to work like it's something that you have to keep working at.

Or if you've allowed them to deteriorate, you need to work to get them back. And you can, you know.

There's, it's not that hard. It's not as hard as people say.

@27:05 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So why is muscle mass related to belly fat?

@27:13 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Well, it's, it's not exactly, not specifically. It's more the, so cortisol encourages, high cortisol encourages fat storage, particularly around the middle.

So it's more the cortisol insulin problem. Decreased muscle mass is going to encourage weight gain in general, but because of that cortisol and insulin problem, then you're going to see it more around the middle.

@27:50 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Uh, yes, I wasn't necessarily, I did start to see it around the middle, but the lost muscle mass just kind

Kind of made me a little bit untoned all over. Like I was sort of flabby.

@28:04 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. That makes sense.

@28:06 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yep. You've said, we've talked about it before, that weight isn't just about, like you've touched on, by talking about cortisol, you've touched on one of the underlying factors of why we gain weight in midlife.

Yep.

@28:31 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Let's talk more about that.

@28:33 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So I talk about stress all the time. I know what it does to our bodies. Maybe you can explain how this strat, like how are we getting, why is this cortisol so high in the first place?

@28:49 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, because of the busyness. Because of the, it's not just being busy. I should clarify. And you and I haven't really talked about this or distinguished.

It's not. It's. It's. Not just having a busy lifestyle that causes this. It's when you feel so busy that you feel pressure.

It's the pressure that's associated with the busyness. It's the stress that's causing your body to think that it's in fight or flight.

Whenever you feel that anxiety increasing or that pressure increasing, then your body thinks, oh, there's something going on. There's a threat out there and we're going to release cortisol and adrenaline so that we're prepared to do whatever is required to face this threat.

Whether it's fight or fight, no, fight or flight or freeze. Or fun.

@29:52 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Or fun.

@29:55 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So that stress hormone, that is, there's adrenaline and there's... It's cortisol. And as I said before, cortisol plays a huge role in managing the blood sugar balance.

And if cortisol is already out of whack because it's also being released whenever you're feeling pressure, then it's going up and down all day long.

So you can end up with an overabundance of cortisol in your body that it doesn't know what to do with.

@30:36 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Well, the adrenals can overshoot too. The adrenal glands that produce and release or release the cortisol into your system can overshoot.

So then you also end up with more. And then if you're eating lots of sugar, then you have more cortisol for that reason too.

And when your insulin isn't working as well, then you have more cortisol in your system and all of this.

comes to a head in midlife. Yeah, exactly.

@31:04 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

It's a vicious cycle. You know, like it's all, they're all sort of working against each other and creating this sort of perfect storm of you hit midlife and you're like, oh, body doesn't know what to do with all of this.

Yes.

@31:21 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So we feel not only the belly fat, but all the symptoms, all the other stuff that happens because we're so stressed out.

And, you know, I want to qualify this to you because so you make a really good point when you talk about the difference between busyness and the stress, because you can be busy.

Like I have a friend who's really busy, but she's not stressed out and she's an extrovert. So actually all the extra activities and social stuff doesn't stress her out.

@31:49 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@31:52 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And a lot of people don't realize they're this stressed out because we've normalized stress so much. Like everybody's stressed out.

So we just think that it's okay. Yeah. Without realizing that all this pressure we put on ourselves and the feeling of the pressure is the problem.

Yeah, exactly. So you can even be not that busy. Like, for example, I have worked towards this life that is not that busy.

And this past week, I don't know, I'm just feeling the pressure. We want to launch our podcast soon. And we've just launched a program.

have all this stuff going on. And so I kind of unwittingly put this extra pressure on myself. And so now, even though I'm still working the same hours a day, I'm doing the same.

It's different work, but it's the same work, like the same stuff. I'm feeling all this pressure and I feel that I'm getting headaches.

My eyes are hurting at the end of the day. Because I'm working. Because I'm this state of anxiety, and I can feel it.

@33:03 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. And that's different.

@33:05 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah.

@33:06 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Your body's in fight or flight just by sitting at your desk. And your body, your adrenal glands, they don't know the difference between, they don't know the difference between I've got to get this thing done, and there's a lion standing in front of me.

Like, it doesn't, it doesn't know that there's a difference between those two. Like, one is, it doesn't know that one is life-threatening, and one isn't.

It just knows, oh, my body is ramping up. We need to get the cortisol going because we need to either fight or flee or fawn or freeze.

@33:47 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And then it also doesn't know that you're not facing starvation when you're hungry. Yes.

@33:55 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. And, well, that's another thing, actually, that I haven't, yeah, that I haven't mentioned. Cortisol. Cortisol. So if your body thinks there's a threat, cortisol will actually tell your body to hold on to weight if it thinks that there's some sort of environmental threat.

So this is why women who cut calories, like they go on a really low calorie diet and they can't lose weight.

So they're eating like 800 calories a day and they're not losing weight. That's because they've just increased their cortisol because their body thinks that it's, there's like they're starving.

There's something, there's a threat externally, there's a famine or there's a drought or something. And so then it tells your body to hold on to weight just in case something's going to happen.

You know, it's so interesting.

@34:55 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I remember hearing that when I remember hearing when I used to diet. That exact thing, like when you're, when, if you reduce your calories too much, then your body is not going to lose weight.

And they used to talk about how it's because your metabolism then slows down.

@35:13 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Hmm. Well, and it, it does a little bit if you're not working out, but it's more of the cortisol.

Your body thinks there's a threat.

@35:23 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It also, you know, what else is interesting, and this doesn't really even have anything to do with midlife.

@35:28 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Your body will do that if it doesn't get the right nutrients. If it's, so if you go and eat McDonald's every day, you're getting enough food.

You're definitely getting enough calories if you're eating McDonald's breakfast, lunch, and dinner, but you will gain weight because your body isn't getting any nutrients.

So your body thinks, oh my gosh, I'm starving. I'm not getting, I'm not getting nutrients. So it will then also tell your, your system, we got to hold on to some weight.

@36:04 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So even if you were eating 800 calories a day of McDonald's food or of whatever, some kind of non-nutritional value food, your body's, even if it's only 800 calories, your body's still going to gain weight.

Oh yeah.

@36:23 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And eventually, well, potentially, but well, it's not that you're going to gain weight. Your body's going to hold on to weight.

You won't be able to lose. But you, the other thing, the other thing is, is that your body. Yeah, I guess that is the point.

Like I had a colleague once who was on Weight Watchers and Weight Watchers is great in many ways. It's, it's a, you know, it causes you to really think about what you're eating because you get more like points or value or like it's easier to eat the lower point foods, which are the healthy foods.

But she was always going out and getting McDonald's and she would just cut out like those were like, you can only eat so much of that because it's high in points according to the Weight Watcher diet.

So you can't eat too much of it if you're going to stay within your points. And I just thought, but that's not actually like, that's not going to help you lose weight because your body is going to think that you're not getting any nutrients.

So it's not, food is not equal just because it has the same caloric value and it can trigger cortisol if your body thinks that it's not getting the right nutrients.

It thinks it's starving.

@37:43 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

That's crazy. I've never thought about it like that. Sure. I want to move on to the next layer. So underneath the stress.

We know that there's something that's deeper. What does the patriarch, like where do these subconscious, let's, you know, before we get into patriarchy, what are these subconscious patterns that are leading to the stress in the first place?

Like maybe I should talk about that actually. Yeah.

@38:23 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I mean, you know, the answer to that, we've talked about it before. It's, it's, we talked about it earlier.

On this episode, like it's the pressure that we feel to perform. It's perfectionism. It's the, you talk about it because you're the expert on this stuff.

Yeah.

@38:43 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

taught, well, briefly, I, I talk about subconscious patterns are behavioral patterns that we don't realize we're doing because most of our behavior is automatic.

And they, some examples of these patterns are people pleasing. they're welcome. So perfectionism, firefighting, overthinking, stuff like that, that people-pleasing and perfectionism are the biggest ones that keep us overly busy because we say yes to too many things.

We perfect too many things. So it doesn't mean like there are certain things that warrant perfectionism, that warrant high standards.

Sure. But there are other things that don't. The kids' party invite, for example, doesn't have to be printed out in a perfect evite or laminated and handed out to the children.

So when we are perfecting everything, that's when we get so busy and then we feel all this pressure to perform because we feel less valuable if we're not actually living up to our own arbitrary standards.

Yeah. So those are the subconscious patterns that... ... ... Cause the stress. And what I wanted to talk about next was then what is leading to those.

And that is most often patriarchal conditioning and our own childhood coping mechanisms that helped us stay safe. Yeah.

@40:20 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Well, and I actually have a great example of that because, oh, hang on. got to sneeze. I went away.

much for that. I have a perfect example of that because we just hosted my Mike's, my husband's family for a barbecue on Saturday.

And all week I've been thinking about the barbecue. Oh, I know where this is going. Yeah. Like some people can just host a barbecue and it's no big deal.

So for me. The house has to be perfect. And I've got to come up with a perfect menu. And I'm also thinking about like, okay, what's going to be easy on the day?

So, and what can I prepare ahead of time? And then it comes down to the day and I'm rushing around, you know, checking all the bathrooms and making sure the towels are changed and vacuuming and cleaning and making food and doing all of these things.

And granted this time I was much, much better because I was very aware of what was happening. Thanks to you.

But most of the time, like in previous years, like that, I was putting all that pressure on myself. Nobody would know if I changed the bathroom towel or not.

Like, yeah, that's me and my standards, my perfectionism. I have to host the perfect party. My house has to look perfect.

The food has to taste perfect. That's That's my own pressure. And that, for me, that comes from, I think, a few different things.

I mean, part of it is, what does everybody else think of me? Yeah, a lot of my house.

@42:19 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Guaranteed, Sheri, there are millions of women who resonate with that story. I certainly do. And, yeah, for me, it's, I'm afraid people are going to judge me.

Like, they're, oh, what if there's toothpaste in the sink? That makes me look like a bad house manager.

@42:39 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. Homemaker, whatever.

@42:40 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Like, it's, yeah, that's still ingrained in me from somewhere.

@42:50 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, and we can look and say, okay, well, that got passed down from mom, because mom was exactly the same way.

And dad, actually. Yeah. Also, dad, that's true.

@43:03 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Usually our stuff comes from mom, but on this one, dad was also like really particular when we were having company.

Yeah, no, that's true.

@43:11 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And I think it's both of those things. Like it's partly, what does everybody else think of me? So am I going to be judged?

And I think going deeper, like what am I going to be judged on? Like am I going to be judged as a not great homemaker or I don't know, whatever they call it these days.

Like someone who takes care of our home as a poor cook, as whatever. But I think that comes from this patriarchal idea that women are supposed to be good at these things.

that we're supposed to be like, that's our rule. So as much as we say, you know, rules are blurring.

And men can wash the dishes and women can cut the lawn, which I do, by the way, I also cut the lawn.

But that internal conditioning is still there, that I'm supposed to be the one who's good at these things. And I'm the one who's managing the project of the party.

And so it's going to look bad on me. Mike doesn't care. And he, like, he's not the one who's running around worrying about it.

@44:36 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yep. No, it never is. And I had something I wanted to say about that. Oh, that, it's usually you bringing up the childless stuff.

But I bet you that also reflects on you differently as a childless woman.

@44:56 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Oh, yeah. Because I have kids, so I can can explain.

@44:59 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

woman. know. So Because I've got kids, they're like, I can never keep this place clean because I've got a now seven-year-old.

I can never keep my car clean. I can't because of the kids. So I don't, so the kids are messier and I don't have time because I'm managing the kids.

So I have an excuse. Yes. Even though internally, I don't feel like I have an excuse. Doesn't matter. Yeah.

@45:27 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And you're so right. I actually talk about this on my childless podcast and my group for women who are childless, but I've never actually heard a mom say that.

So that's really interesting because I do feel like that. I'm like, I don't have an excuse. Like my house has to be perfect because I'm, I supposedly have all this time to keep it that way, or I don't have the kids to mess it up.

So it should just always be like that. And yet I'm apparently not. I'm very neat person because it's always messy.

Well, I also have a dog and I have a husband who uses a wheelchair. So yeah, I still won't like allow those to be my excuse.

But when you use a wheelchair, you are basically coming into the house and wearing your shoes all over the house or your snowy, muddy boots, whatever season it is.

So, you know, there's perpetually dirt or snow or salt from the roads or whatever all over our floor.

@46:32 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. I still have to be clean. So patriarchy keeps us stressed and busy because there's all this pressure. And some of the other things that I talk about from a, from that standpoint is like patriarchy tells women that we're second best.

So we have to prove our values. So we, so we stay really busy and we get stressed. We probably, you, you might not realize it if you're feeling this, but.

Or you might not even realize you're feeling this, but you are stressed when you don't feel like you are worthy enough.

That can stress you out. So it's not just, like we said before, the busyness of trying to get the long to-do list done and trying to get everything done.

Because that's stressful if we're pressuring ourselves to get everything done. It's also the reason why we're not, why we're trying to get everything done in the first place is that we don't feel like we deserve whatever, the title or the role, the title at home.

Like I'm not a good wife or I'm not a good home manager. I'm not good at my job. I'm not, I don't deserve this title.

So we don't feel worthy of it. So we get busier. And that's stressful when we don't feel worthy of it or we're afraid of criticism or we feel like we're not making it in a man's world.

@47:59 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Uh Because the business does.

@48:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Whether you like it or not, it's still a man's world. was still created by men and it still is, no matter how many women are in it.

So all those things are things that cause us the stress. Yeah. But the other thing that patriarchy does is it wires us to ignore our bodies.

@48:20 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yes.

@48:22 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So walk us through how it tells us to override exhaustion, keep saying yes. It's along the same lines, but I just want to dig a little deeper into that.

@48:39 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. So from the time we are little kids, we are wired to ignore messages from our body.

@48:49 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So it starts with girls in particular or all children. I think all children.

@48:59 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

It's just. It up in a little bit of a different way, but let me explain what I mean. When you're a little kid and you're sitting at the dinner table and you say, I'm full, I can't eat anymore.

And then comes either eat your dinner and you won't get dessert. So then you eat your dinner, even though you're full because you want dessert.

Or you get the guilt, which is you should be grateful, eat your dinner because there's starving children all over Africa.

America America, there's language and that like conditioning from the time that we are little kids. That means ignore your full body, your fullness and eat more.

Even though you're full, I want you to finish your plate. And so we ignore and we eat until we are more full.

And then in school... school... was literally just talking about this on another podcast. And you get to school and you have to raise your hand if you have to pee.

@50:09 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Or try to wait till recess.

@50:11 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Or you're told, yeah, recess is in 10 minutes. So you can wait. And so then you ignore another body signal.

And this happens throughout our lives. We begin in childhood to stop trusting how our bodies feel and going with the external view or the external, whatever the external is telling us to do.

And then we hit adulthood and it's like, oh no, I just have to finish this one thing before I go and eat or before I go to the washroom or before I rest.

Or Or So Before I, whatever, whatever your body is asking for, it's no, I've got to get this thing done first, or I have to, it's this before I can take care of my body.

So your body's always last.

@51:17 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And more examples, I need to work, so I'm going to go to work sick. I have period pain, and I'm just going to pop a bunch of Tylenol or Midol or something and go to work anyway and suffer through it.

Well, and that starts also, many people, not everybody, because I know people who do rest when they're in pain or sick or whatever.

But there's so much judgment around that if you take the time off.

@51:49 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, and the period pain is another one that starts in high school, usually, when you want to sit out of gym because you don't feel good.

You feel uncomfortable in your gym clothes and you don't want to be running around and the gym teacher rolls their eyes at you and doesn't understand and says, whatever, get like, get your clothes on and get going.

So ignore how you're feeling when you're actually, like our bodies are actually supposed to rest when we're getting our periods.

You have lower energy.

@52:28 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yep. That body's going through something.

@52:31 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I know.

@52:32 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

You know, it was amazing when I started to actually pay attention to that when I was practicing Ashtanga and we'd practice six days a week.

We took a rest day on Saturday. Plus we rested when the moon was full or new and women rested when they were menstruating.

Yeah. And man, my cycles became very regular. Mmm.

@52:59 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And in life...

@53:01 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Interesting.

@53:04 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep. I mean, there's lots of, oh yeah, we're going off track. Okay. Back on track. know.

@53:09 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And we, and we are on a clock today. So, so, okay. So on that note, when you said we ignore our body's signals and we start to not trust our body, you told a story about a client.

So I think this is the next step is that then when we try to actually fix, not fix, when we try to actually start to diet and get on a healthy path again, patriarchy also keeps us from that.

And I was thinking about that story you told about a client anonymously to me recently. Can you tell that story?

know, which one I'm talking about?

@53:52 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I do. Yeah. Yeah. I have a few where this has come up, but this one in particular kind of stands out.

And I know I've told you about her before. So this client came to me, she was really struggling with losing weight and tried the, especially the low calorie diet, tried different things to try to correct or to try to, to try to lose the weight.

And she finally came to me and in the first session, I usually do give them, I don't give people a whole plan to overhaul their nutrition or their, their life, their diet, everything.

We start with three small commitments. And one of hers was to take this supplement that she already had in her cupboard and start taking it.

@54:46 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And just take the supplement, just take the supplement.

@54:49 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I hear it all the time too, Sheri.

@54:51 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah.

@54:52 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And a couple of weeks later, she came back and I asked her how she made out on her commitments and she said, I didn't do any of them.

And so then we started coaching. And long story short, what came out of that was that, you know, we went through a process of what kept you from taking this supplement?

Well, I was just busy. I didn't think of it. Well, what kept you so busy? Well, work is really busy.

You know, and then by the time I get home, I'm, you know, I forget about it in the morning.

I'm rushing off to work and whatever. Well, what causes that? And what causes that? And what causes that? Like what specifically?

Keeps you from doing all those things. And what came out of that was, well, she's busy because she didn't feel like she could say no to the five o'clock meeting.

Her boss is asking her for, and she didn't feel like she could say no to the client calls that were coming through after work hours.

And well, lunchtime, normally she actually, like she was working from home a few days a week. So I was like, what's happening on lunch?

Well, I take the dog for a walk. the I I dog dog in And so that takes up my lunch hour.

was trying to, like, you know, create space and take the dog for a walk and get some exercise. But then it's the dog that's getting the attention.

So at the end of the day, there was a fear underneath of that, which was if I don't comply with my boss, if I don't serve the boss, the clients, the dog, even not the dog, but the boss and the clients, I'm going to lose my job.

And I think that's, there's a difference there between men and women, not all, but I watched so many executives when I worked in the financial world, male executives would walk out the door at five o'clock without a thing in their hands, you know, their wallet and their keys are in their pocket, and they would just shut off their computer and walk out the door.

And the women... women... women... women... women... And Thank Would still be there at 6.30. And these are midlife women.

So they're not, you know, picking up their kids at five o'clock from daycare. They're midlife women. They're the ones who are proving something.

They're the ones who feel like they can't just stop their day at five and go home. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely, there's definitely men out there who work crazy hours as well.

I'm not saying that there aren't.

@57:36 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yep.

@57:37 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

But there's this underlying belief, talking about subconscious beliefs. There's always a fear there. There's something that keeps you from taking the supplement that's already in your cupboard.

@57:50 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Which, bringing it back to the belly around the middle, is all of, all of that then keeps us crazy busy and stressed.

which leads to the weight gain, but it also keeps us from doing all the right things that we need to do to lose the weight.

The things that we know are going to benefit us.

@58:09 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

We all, most women know what's going to help them. Maybe not the fine tuning, but they generally know. I need to do some muscle building exercises.

I want to eat more salads, more greens, more vegetables, more protein, more healthy fats. They know what they need to do, but they don't do it.

And they can't figure out why.

@58:36 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yep. Yep. I hear it all the time. So just coming around then, if we're told that the midlife weight gain is just about hormones and willpower.

You know, the nice thing about this actually is that it makes it not our fault. Because when I couldn't lose weight, I really felt like there was something wrong with me.

Like I, not something wrong with me, but like, why can't I get this right? Like, why can I do this?

I am weak. Like there's an internal criticism under there. So I hope that this gives our listeners a little bit of grace.

Like this isn't you, it's not your fault. I think there's shame there.

@59:19 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Like I felt a lot of shame about my body.

@59:22 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Absolutely. Cause it looks like you, you can't control yourself. Yeah.

@59:27 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Well, and that's a whole, okay. So just as a side bar for a moment, cause I think we probably need to do a whole another episode on this.

There's a whole piece that we haven't even talked about. And that is the body image that the patriarchy has ingrained in and, and advertising and media, like the way that a woman is supposed to look.

And that's a whole other can of worms.

@59:51 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. Yeah. We talked about it in the gendered aging episode, but yes, we could talk for hours about that.

So. And these, like, this culture, this, the systems that we're living under are rewarding self-abandonment is what it's doing.

So what would you say, like, where does that leave us? Well, what would you say to a woman then who's feeling all of this, who's frustrated with her body, maybe hasn't considered this, that the problem is actually not her.

It's the system that she's trying to survive in. What would you say to her? What could she do?

@1:00:37 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Well, first of all, come work with us.

@1:00:43 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yes, we have a program.

@1:00:47 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Unless you get at these subconscious beliefs. And you have frozen. Is it me or you?

@1:00:55 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I'm not sure because you're frozen as well. There, you're coming back. Back, let's just leave it to Robbo to figure this out.

So I didn't hear what you said when I said, what can she do? Or what would you say to that woman?

So first of all, come work with us.

@1:01:20 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Because none of the diets out there, like if you're only looking at a strictly physical answer, or a diet and exercise, you're not, chances are that's either not going to work because you're not addressing the stress, which is going to cause your blood sugar to go all out of whack and insulin and cortisol, as we talked about in the beginning.

But you're also not going to, like you may not even take the supplement or cook yourself the nourishing food that you're supposed to on the diet.

Something's always going to get in the way. And if you don't address that, which... If the conditioning, the subconscious beliefs, and the stress, then no diet and exercise plan is going to work.

So you need to start with the foundation, which is let's unravel what your beliefs are, and then the weight will drop off naturally.

@1:02:23 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah, you almost don't even have to diet. And we've touched on some of the beliefs on this episode and others, like some of these patriarchal beliefs that keep us hustling and all of that.

But the important part that we cover when we start working with the women that are in our groups and one-to-one is we work on their personal unique beliefs.

And conditioning, because it's slightly different for everybody. True.

@1:02:59 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Like how...

@1:03:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

We internalize these societal subliminal messages is slightly different for everybody. So this is a start for you to start becoming aware of what might be under the surface.

There's so it's like an iceberg. There's so much under the surface. Yeah.

@1:03:21 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And all you can see is the tip, but there's all this other stuff. Yeah.

@1:03:27 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So let's just close this off. And I guess my last question, maybe one more, is what's one small, maybe even radical act a woman could take now?

Maybe not even to lose weight, but to just stop abandoning her body and come back to her own true self.

Yeah.

@1:03:53 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So this is, it's a practice. And this is the practice. practice. So So You start listening to your body.

So it's, it always starts with noticing, noticing, like observing yourself, noticing when you are hungry, when you are thirsty, when you have to pee, when something hurts, those are all your body signaling to you that it needs something when it's tired, when it's, I could go on and on.

Um, notice when your body is actually feeling something and what, how you respond. That's the first step. What's your first inkling?

What's your first, you know, are you ignoring it? Like notice when you have the urge to pee and you say, okay, hang on, just wait, I need to finish this one thing.

Like you're saying that to your body, just wait, wait, and I'll give you what you need in a minute.

And every time you do that, you're telling. Your body, you're not, what I have to do here is more important than what you have to do.

That's so true.

@1:05:09 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And I actually, I love the way that you taught this to the women in our program the other day.

And one of the things that came out was my eyes are tired. Hmm. Because people don't think about all the little ways that our body is giving us a signal.

And that was such a perfect example. Like my eyes are tired right now and I don't think about it.

My eyes need to rest from this computer screen. I need to go for a walk. So yeah, I think that's a great small way to, to end.

And if you want to know the method that Sheri taught in our program the other day, you'll have to get in touch with us.

So we will put. Some links in the show notes on how to get in touch with us. Is there anything, Sheri, last things that you would say before we wrap?

@1:06:17 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I'm just thinking.

@1:06:21 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Put another way, if you wanted to sum it all up, what does patriarchy have to do with midlife weight gain?

@1:06:31 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So the patriarchy has conditioned us in ways that cause us to gain weight and that keep us from doing the things that are going to help us bring our body back into balance.

It's the foundation, like the root cause.

@1:06:51 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. So when everyone else is just talking about the best diet for midlife weight gain. at everything. Thank you.

There's so much more. So I'm going to close there. If you want to know more, get in touch with us.

Check the links in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you, Cher. I learned, I cannot believe that every time we have one of these conversations, I learn something from you and you're my twin sister and we talk all the time.

So thank you for all of your wisdom and to you, our listener, thank you so much. We will see you in the next episode.

Bye for now.