7: The Hidden Connection Between Busyness and Menopause

Are you a woman in your 40's, feel like you've been running at full speed for way too long, and can’t keep it up much longer? This episode is for you. 

I hate to tell you - it's not your situation, and it's not your fault.

The reason the chaos and stress comes to a head in your 40's is because the drop in sex hormones fuels bigger cortisol spikes in your body. So you FEEL more stressed and busy than ever. 

And if you don't address it, you'll be stuck with menopause symptoms, autoimmune disorders, and memory loss as you age.

'Cause there's one thing we've learned about menopause...If you don't get out of the "rushing woman syndrome" and learn to prioritize yourself, all the supplements and diets in the world won't fix your symptoms.

Maybe you know you’re part of the reason for the busyness—but you can’t seem to stop yourself. Maybe you’re holding so many pieces together that you’re terrified of dropping a ball.

In this episode, we’re going to uncover the hidden mistakes that feed the busy-ness, explore how subconscious patterns keep you stuck in overdrive, and reveal the surprising patterns that are stealing your time, energy, and peace.

Join us under the Midlife Red Tent!

Get the details for our Midlife Red Tent Retreat in the Sacred Valley of Peru. 

Find us on instagram:

Jen: @jenreimercoaching

Sheri: @sherijohnsoncoaching

Transcript

If you are a busy midlife woman who feels like you are running at full speed and can't keep it up much longer, then this episode is for you.

That was me not too long ago. And maybe you realize what I realized, that you know you're a part of the reason for this busyness.

Maybe you're contributing in some way to your own busyness, but you can't seem to stop yourself. And maybe you're holding, or you feel like you're holding so many pieces together that you are terrified of dropping a ball.

I definitely felt that way. It's Sheri here, and today we're going to uncover the hidden mistakes that feed this chaos.

We're going to explore how the subconscious patterns keep you stuck in overdrive. And we're going to reveal some. Maybe surprising patterns that are stealing your time and your calm.

Jen is an expert on busyness, so I'm going to pick her brain today about all of this. Let's begin.

Hey, Jen. Hey.

@16:24 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay, I'm going to start with a question.

@16:27 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

We're going to dive right in. Tell me about, I know this already, but for our listeners, tell me what your life looked like five years ago that really led you to this work that you're doing now on busyness.

@16:43 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay, I've told this story before about how I burnt out in about 2020. So I'm not going to tell all of it, but I was essentially, I was crazy.

Like, it was nuts how busy I was. I was... I Writing my thesis. I was working two different consulting jobs.

I was teaching academically at a college for post-grad students. I had a billion things going on, and I had a two-year-old.

@17:17 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, that definitely sounds like a lot.

@17:20 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah, and I just thought I had to do it because we were feeling some financial pressure, and I felt like this is just what I had to do.

I didn't trust that the money was going to come in. I was just in this state of constant busyness.

And fast forward two years to 2022, actually before I fast forward, I kept thinking when I'm done my thesis, everything's going to be fine.

@17:49 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Oh, yeah. Yep. Then I'll slow down.

@17:52 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It was like, when this happens, then I'm going to slow down. And I kept when then-ing myself. Yes, because so what, like in 2021, when I burnt out, I finally had a conversation with my husband about dropping some stuff.

Like I said, you know what, I can't do this consulting project again. It's not, I just can't. I want to just finish my PhD and move on with life.

So we agreed. I was going to drop some of the paying work and just get this thing done. And it took me another year and, and I got still crazy busy with that.

Like I didn't stop working weekends. I didn't stop working evenings. It just never stopped. Yeah. And I was like, okay, I dropped all the work, dropped all the paid work so I could focus on this.

And I'm still crazy busy. And then I finished my PhD and I freaking didn't stop.

@18:54 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. Like you don't even stop to take a break.

@18:57 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. And I kept saying, okay, I'm going to take When I'm done with my PhD, and I took a bit of time.

I was at home. I didn't go away on vacation, and I got busy doing some stuff around the house that I had been putting off forever.

I didn't even barely stop to relax. I forced myself to do some things, to lie down and watch TV on the couch and relax a bit, but I didn't fully relax.

@19:26 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So I want to stop you there, Jen, because there's two things that I want to highlight, just to make sure this sinks in, because this can show up in some different ways.

So I want to tell you this story. So much stuff comes up in my book club. It's funny.

@19:44 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I know, because there's such a great example of all the things, and I'm part of it.

@19:49 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I am just as guilty of all of these things that you're talking about as they are. So, so this was kind of funny, because

Because one of the girls, let me put that on, do not disturb. So one of the girls at the beginning of the summer asked if anybody wanted to play pickleball.

And a bunch of us actually put up our hands and said, yes, I would love to learn how to play pickleball.

And so we decided, okay, Wednesday evenings will be the sorry.

@20:25 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Of course, you have to learn to play pickleball, Sheri, because that's what every midlife woman is doing, at least in Canada these days.

Well, and she actually said that, the one who suggested it was like, I feel like I'm going to miss out on a key part of my retirement if I don't learn how to do this.

So yes, we decided we're going to learn how to play pickleball.

@20:47 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And Wednesday evenings is going to be the day when we get together and, you know, learn how to rally.

She had even sourced out, like, someone to teach us how to, like, some of the basics. And then... ...

You know, the first Wednesday went by, and I think there were two people who went out. And then the second Wednesday went by, and it was just me and my friend who organized.

And then the next Wednesday, I asked if anybody was in, and the answer was no. And so all the Wednesdays went by, and nobody was, we weren't playing.

We weren't doing anything. After the first two Wednesdays, no one was playing. And we talked about it at book club.

And one of the girls said, you know, maybe like the summer is kind of busy. Maybe in the fall would be a good time to take this up.

And I actually called it out because I was like, no, that's not going to happen. Everybody gets just as busy in the fall and the light goes.

So then we're not going out in the evening and then it rains and it gets cold. And it's not like, it's not going to happen.

It's the, if it's the, what did you call it? The, when, the, when, then, yes, when this is over.

And summer's over. I'll be less busy so then we can do it. It's when this project is done, then things will lighten up and then I'll have time.

And I see this time and time again with my clients, with our clients, your clients. It doesn't happen. Like we just stay just as busy.

Life never lightens up.

@22:27 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yep. You go on vacation and you're like, okay, I'm going to be slower when I get back from vacation.

I'm going to keep my zen state. And then a week later, you're back into it. Or, okay, New Year's resolution.

I'm going to slow down or I'm going to stop being so crazy busy. I'm going to leave work at five.

It doesn't matter. It always happens that way. And that's exactly what I was doing to myself. So then when I was done, I didn't slow down.

I tried to relax. I forced myself and it didn't happen.

@22:57 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep. So the other other thing. That you talked about was this making yourself busy or like getting busy even like right out, you know, it's the then.

When you get to the when and what happens even when you have a break. So one of our clients, our mutual clients, said this yesterday.

She has been laid off from work and she's now on supposed to be like taking a break, having a bit of a summer.

And she said, I'm just as busy. Like I'm just as busy as I was before. I'm super busy. I don't like I'm and it, you know, it's summertime.

She doesn't have it. She still doesn't have a job yet, but she's busied herself with all the other things looking for a job.

Doing all the stuff at home, doing like it's it's continuous. And so. All that pressure is still there. Yeah.

So I think I'm thinking that our listeners are probably starting to resonate with us. Sorry, Jen. Yeah, it's okay.

I'm getting some messages here. I think I'm, like, I'm just clearing some bandwidth.

@24:35 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay.

@24:41 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay, so I think our listeners are probably getting the idea of how this maybe shows up in, like, it shows up at work, it shows up at home in your social life.

What are the big mistakes that they're making in, like, what leads them to this? And what are they Doing to try to fix it.

@25:02 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. So the biggest mistake that I see among women, anybody, but we're talking about women here, is thinking that their busyness is caused by everything else around them.

So million obligations, the demands on their time, all the stuff that has to get done. That's what I thought too.

I was like, there's just too much to do. I can't get it all done. And it feels overwhelming at times, although I wouldn't have wanted to admit that I felt overwhelmed.

I would have just been like, I'm just stressed. I'm just busy. And I was blaming it on everything else.

@25:46 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And that's what I see.

@25:47 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

That's what I see in my clients. They tell me I have a billion obligations and I just need to reprioritize.

@25:56 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So the second mistake is thinking that this is a time management thing. And that you just need to reprioritize everything.

@26:02 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I just need to drop something, or I just need to whatever, which is also what I did. Like, I'm like, okay, I just need to drop the work, the paid work, and then everything's going to be fine.

And then it wasn't.

@26:15 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. And do you think, I don't know, like, this is, I'm wondering about this. I feel like that leads us to believe, like, to blame ourselves, to feel like I'm, like, at least this is the way I was feeling, was I can't seem to get a handle on this.

I'm just not very efficient. I must not be very good at, like, I'm not good at managing my time.

I'm not very productive. I was in this, like, constant kind of self-blame without really realizing it. And I, like, I think that puts a lot, that by itself puts a lot of pressure.

We feel like we're not doing a good job at managing our time or prioritizing or whatever. Sheri, I want to say something about that, though.

@27:11 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It's sneaky. So you, like our listener might know that she's efficient and that she's good at her job and that she's productive and getting stuff done consciously.

We know it. And it's the subconscious background music that's playing. And it's not, actually, it's not music. It doesn't feel like music.

It's not nice. It's criticism, self-doubt. It's white noise that's not nice, like an engine in the background that's going, you're not good enough.

You're not getting enough done. You made a mistake. You, so it's background noise that is self-criticism that you might not even realize that you're having.

And that's the stuff that's saying you're not efficient enough, you're not good enough. And that's also the voice that is running, that's saying there's something wrong with you.

Yeah.

@28:13 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Everybody else has got it right and there's something wrong with you. Yeah. And maybe that was later on in my journey, but I started to, actually now that I think about it, yeah.

Like when I was in it, I was blaming it on like work for sure. Like there's so many demands, there's so much going on at work.

My leaders expect, you know, this level of perfection. They expect all this stuff to get done by Monday. And so I have to work the weekend.

I think you're right. At first I did not realize it. I just, I thought, okay, this is what people do.

And that's, it's what everybody else was doing at work. you.

@29:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And it, so it sounds kind of harsh when I say this sometimes that you're contributing to your own busyness, but so before I like, so I'm going to say that.

And at the same time, there are some work calls. So if we're talking about work, there are some work cultures that are like that.

And I know that from my own experience. I worked in, I worked in all kinds of different environments. I worked for Seagram Universal, which was like the drinks company way back in 2000, where everybody left at five.

It was beautiful. Yeah, it was an easy work environment. Everybody kept my, my MBA friends used to make fun of me for having a cushy job.

And, and it was lovely. And I actually, I was embarrassed about it. So I'll get to that. I want to get to that in a like what society tells us about that.

@30:00 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yes, because that just brought a memory up for me when I worked at Fidelity Investments, which was like everybody left at five.

And I remember moving into a new job. Like it was a pretty big promotion for me. Like I wasn't ready for it.

And so I was really like struggling to understand the work, get the work done. And I remember this moment where I sent an email out and it went out to senior leaders, like VPs and executives and my leaders.

And it was after hours. And I looked at the time after I sent it and I went, oh my gosh, I ruminated about it all night because I was like, oh my gosh, they're going to think that I shouldn't be working this late.

And they're going to think that I can't handle my job. And maybe they're going to think that I'm like, maybe, maybe they're going to think that because I'm sending it after hours.

That like, oh, I'm putting all this work in. I'm so dedicated to my job. Like it's, I'm meant to do it after hours so that they would see that.

And like all this stuff was going through my mind just because I sent them an email that was at like seven o'clock at night.

And that just wasn't the culture there. And contrast that with another company that I went to that was, everyone worked like all hours.

And so that felt like the expectation and you felt guilty for not staying late. So you're right about that.

There's company culture can, gosh, like I worked for that company for just four years. And that busy, like stay after five guilt, if you don't like that, shaped me.

@31:50 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It stays with you for a long time, Sher. And so I had the exact same experience where I went from one company to another.

Nestle was a And then I went to another company that I won't name because it was so toxic. Everybody worked 12-hour days and everybody was expected to work on weekends.

And if you didn't, you felt guilty. So all that to say, there are some cultures that are very difficult to buck the trend.

@32:20 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@32:22 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

However, we also do it to ourselves. And if you're in that kind of company, then I suggest you leave as soon as possible.

@32:31 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I agree.

@32:32 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Because it's cultural and it's too hard to go against the trend. It requires so much standing up for yourself and so much setting boundaries that if you're listening to this, you probably have a hard time setting boundaries because that's what most of my clients come to me for.

So what I realized is that even when I wasn't in that culture, I still did it. It was contributing to my own busyness.

I didn't realize it at the time. took me many years later that it was, that I was contributing. Yeah.

So when I go, like just going back to this mistake that we're thinking that it's everything else around us, the reason why we stay so busy is because we're blaming it on something external.

We're blaming it on our external situation when it's actually an internal problem. Yeah.

@33:35 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So yeah. Okay. So let's, let's dive into that. What is the actual, well, actually, first of all, what are, what are we trying to do to fix this problem?

Like, what are, you mentioned that, you know, women are trying to set boundaries and they, if they're in a culture, like.

We just discussed, they're not going to be able to even, they're not going to be able to overcome that.

But for those who are working in, you know, in a culture that doesn't necessarily promote all this after hours work and like what are, and yet they still feel super busy.

What are they trying to do to fix the problem now? Because it's not working, whatever it is they're doing, right?

Yeah.

@34:31 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So what, what the, what, you know, the media tells us is to get more self-care.

@34:38 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@34:39 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It'll tell us, so get more self-care, take time for yourself, meditate so you feel calm, make sure you keep exercising, start a yoga practice.

All of these things are helpful because they help us to reduce our stress. However. However. They do not, unless you are also figuring out what is keeping you so busy in the first place, or what is keeping you stressed in the first place, these things will help you to regulate your nervous system, and then afterwards you go back to the same patterns.

So you can meditate at the end of your workday and get a little bit calm and maybe wind down a little bit faster, which is good.

And then you jump back into your workday the next morning. So some of the things that, some of the mistakes that my clients make is they jump into the workday.

They, you know, whereas like sending emails at seven o'clock way back when you were at Fidelity wasn't the norm.

It certainly is today. People send emails, they check work emails after dinner on their phones. I know I can.

See when women read my emails that I send out, and some of them are reading the emails that I send out at six o'clock in the morning, that I schedule for six o'clock in the morning.

@36:09 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

They read them at that time of day.

@36:12 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So all of that gets them into stress mode from the start of their day. So then they're running around like a chicken with her head cut off all day long.

Yeah. Never actually being that productive. Yep.

@36:25 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Well, and something that I want to go back to is the self-care, because I hear that all the time.

You need to do more self-care. And the problem that I see, and this is also the problem that I had, I felt guilty when I was doing the self-care.

Or I couldn't even get myself to do it. Like I'd say, I sometimes do this now. I'll say, okay, I really, I just want to sit down and read a book for an hour before dinner.

Before I start like getting back into the kitchen and doing all the things. And. And I can't, I'm still at my desk at six o'clock.

Like I've just completely hijacked the plan for my self-care because I felt like there was too much other stuff to do.

Or I do it and I can't, like my nervous system actually fires up because it's going like, uh, no, you've got all this other stuff to do.

It is not yet time to relax. Like you need to wait, you need to get all this stuff done first and then you get to relax.

So I can't relax when I'm doing the self-care. I just feel guilty about it. I just feel like I should be doing something else because there's all this other stuff that needs to be done.

This can wait. Pointing at me. so much, Sher, it drives me nuts.

@37:47 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So if I hear another motivational speaker tell me that I need to take more self-care, I want, I'm going to hit them.

@37:57 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Cause it doesn't work. Like it just, it can actually put more. Yeah, because it's another thing to do.

@38:03 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It drives me crazy because they miss this huge piece that so many women feel guilty about taking self-care because they feel guilty.

They feel selfish because there's other people struggling around them. Like their kids need help. Their husband needs help or their spouse or whatever.

There's so much work to do. Their colleagues are still at work. They feel guilty and selfish by taking the self-care so they can't.

So all the, you know, you read in the magazines, you read all the articles that say, if you want to de-stress, take more self-care.

The other thing that they miss when they talk about self-care is they make it sound like self-care is this big thing.

@38:55 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, yes. Go to get a massage. Take a half an hour to have a... Bath. It feels like too big.

Take a spa day. It's event.

@39:04 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It's an event.

@39:05 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

event.

@39:05 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Whereas self-care, self-care doesn't need to be that. Self-care can be when you are taking your five, 10-minute shower in the morning, instead of thinking about all the things that you have to do today or the next thing, like what am I going to wear?

What am I going to make for my lunch? Just go, I'm nurturing myself in the shower. And I'm closing my eyes right now, just going, okay, I'm just going to take these five minutes to just feel the water on me.

That's self-care. Taking your supplement, taking your vitamins every day, that's self-care. And most of us let the supplements stay in the cupboard because we don't feel like we deserve self-care because that's being selfish or there's too much to do.

@39:49 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I can't do it. The number of supplement graveyards out there in people's cupboards, the back of their kitchen cupboards.

Like it's, I'm. The number of clients that say that to me is ridiculous. It's not ridiculous. It's completely understandable.

I was one of those people.

@40:08 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. So the other thing that so many women are trying to do to fix the problem is to set better boundaries.

They say it to me all the time. Yep. I'm going to say no. I'm going to say no more often.

And it's a New Year's resolution or it's like September, like as we record this, it's August. Okay. September's coming up.

The kids are going back to school. Now I'm going to set better boundaries. I'm going to do this. And they fail to set better, healthier, stronger boundaries because, and they know this.

@40:41 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@40:43 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Because they're trying to prove their value and because they feel guilty. They feel guilty saying no.

@40:50 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

They feel guilty. Yeah. If they set a boundary, they don't want to disappoint someone. Yeah.

@40:55 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So they stay busy. Yeah.

@41:00 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So Jen, let's get into the real crux of the problem here. Can you talk about what's really underlying? You've kind of touched on it, but can you kind of spell it out for us?

Yeah.

@41:15 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay. There's two big reasons. And I'll talk about the easy one first. It is societal messaging that tells us that being busy makes us important.

Being busy makes us – actually, the first messaging is you've to hustle to be successful.

@41:41 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@41:41 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Hard work brings success. What that has turned into is hard work means success.

@41:52 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Ooh. Yeah. difference there? Yeah. And it doesn't. I mean, there's lots of people who hustle and are – And are not achieving their goals, like whatever success looks like for them.

But there's also people who are really successful, and they are not hustling.

@42:12 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Exactly. They don't work that hard. Or they're working hard, but not for that long. So what used to be a cause and effect kind of thing, like working hard will lead to success, which isn't necessarily true in the first place, has now become, I'm so busy, I'm important and valuable.

That means I'm successful.

@42:34 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

That means I'm successful.

@42:36 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And you hear that all the time. Every time you ask somebody, how, how are you?

@42:43 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Things are insane right now. Things are insane.

@42:46 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Oh, I'm so busy. In South Africa, it was like, it's so hectic right now. That's what they used to say, hectic.

@42:50 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Mm-hmm. Hectic. I remember that. I love that one.

@42:53 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And, oh, and for our listener, we, Sheri lived in South Africa for a year, way back. in the late 90s.

And I lived there for a decade from 2009 till 2019. So we both have these common South African experiences.

So yeah, busy means I'm important. And all the societal messaging that goes around that, like we praise busyness, we praise the busy mom, the wonder woman, the person that can do it all.

@43:26 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

The super mom. We glorify those people.

@43:29 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And what that tells us is, oh, they're so busy. They're good. Yeah.

@43:38 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Can I just chime in here for my listeners who do not have children? Because the busy mom thing is big.

I mean, that's an ideal in our society. And the to anyone who doesn't have children, who's listening, you are probably

Probably just as busy, I'm guessing, you're just as busy, or feel just as busy as the mothers. And I look at that as, I think this is what I was doing.

This busy mom thing is glorified in our society. So if I'm not going to have the mom thing, I'm definitely going to have the busy thing.

@44:24 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. So, and it wasn't, it certainly wasn't conscious.

@44:30 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Like, this is, I started, I feel like my burnout period was my late 30s, early 40s, when I was in the midst of trying to be a mom, and also working for the crazy culture company that I worked for that was pretty toxic, which I won't name.

Some of you have probably figured it out, because I've talked about it before. But I was also, like, there was so much going on.

And I can, Think of this particular period where I was recovering from a miscarriage, my brother-in-law passed away that year, we were moving from one city to another, I was starting to work from home and then was told, nope, you don't get to work from home, okay, maybe you can work from home two days a week.

So I had to go down to the office two hours away and then we were planning our wedding in that same year and we didn't have to plan our wedding in that year and yet I was like, nope, I want to get married at Christmas when you were coming home from South Africa and I wanted to do all this other stuff.

Like I remember being at Diane's and Diane, our other sister, she'd stop working at five and I'd be sitting there with them in front of the TV with my laptop open, doing all kinds of stuff after work and she would just, she'd come home, not that she wasn't busy, but she finished work at five, she did not.

And it was so blatant with me sitting there with an open laptop on my lap while they're watching TV.

And I just, I was okay with that at the time.

@46:20 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah, because you don't really, you just think it's part of the gig.

@46:24 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, and I think maybe there was this subconscious thing going on. Like, you know, she had two kids at the time, two little kids.

Like, they were three and six. Yeah, she still has two kids.

@46:39 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

They're just older now. I mean, yeah.

@46:42 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, she had little kids at the time. And I wonder whether, like, that was the period when I was trying to be a mom.

Was there something subconscious? Like, having to prove, I'm just as busy. Even though you're busy, you've got these two little kids, you have a...

She still has a big job. She's an executive. She's a C-level. I think I was trying to prove my worth, trying to be as busy subconsciously.

Right.

@47:15 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I still have stuff to do, even though I don't have children. Yeah. You stay at work, you stay at work watching like the moms leave thinking, okay, they have an excuse to leave at five, but I don't.

So I can keep working and make up for whatever, you know, make up for, you think of it as making up for them, even though they're working just as hard.

But yeah. So absolutely. Okay.

@47:37 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Let's carry on. I just wanted to, I wanted to bring that up because I think there's a lot of, a lot of childless women out there who feel like, well, they'll tell themselves they're not as busy as the moms, or maybe they'll tell themselves they are, or, or they truly are.

They're feeling the same level of pressure. doesn't really matter. We all still fill the same 24 hours of the day.

@48:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yep. Whether it's with kids or whatever.

@48:04 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So, okay. Let's go back to the, we were talking about the, what's really going on. And so there's societal conditioning.

And then there's also, I think you had said there was a second thing.

@48:18 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. And this is the bigger problem. It is that if you're like this, if this is ringing true for you, it is that your brain and your nervous system does not feel safe, relaxing, resting, playing.

Your brain doesn't feel safe if you are not, your brain doesn't feel safe if you're not busy. Yeah. And that comes from childhood.

pick up. So this is about subconscious patterns. 90% of our behavior is automatic. Driven by subconscious beliefs, fears, patterns that we learned in our childhood as coping mechanisms.

@49:08 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep.

@49:10 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Which is, I will, so these turn into patterns, basically. So your brain doesn't feel safe relaxing because you've been told you need to hustle.

You need to prove your value with your worth. Um, you need to be perfect, not make mistakes. All these kinds of things turn into patterns as adults that our brain thinks are keeping us safe, but they're not actually being very, they're not actually serving us anymore.

@49:41 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep. Okay.

@49:43 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So, sorry.

@49:44 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

example.

@49:45 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah.

@49:46 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Talk about the patterns. Okay.

@49:48 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So these are behavioral patterns like people-pleasing, perfectionism. Um, overthinking. Firefighting.

@50:01 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

What's firefighting? I mean, I know what firefighting is because we used to actually call it that at the company that was fairly toxic and working all the time.

@50:12 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I knew what firefighting was, but I don't know if everybody does.

@50:14 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Like sometimes that's, I don't know.

@50:17 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It's that feeling of when you are, well, it's solving problems, basically, often that aren't yours to solve. So you're running around, solving problems, cutting corners because you're not stopping to allow yourself to creatively solve the problem properly.

So you end up cutting corners, band-aid solutions. And it's like this feeling of like, I'm constantly putting out a fire over there.

And as soon as that fire over there is put out, I got to put one out over here because there's constantly these urgent things coming up.

Yeah.

@50:53 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep.

@50:54 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And it's, it turns into a spiral when it, especially in some company cultures. That don't actually stop and take the time because everything is so urgent.

@51:04 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. And we're going to get into these patterns in a lot more detail on future episodes, right?

@51:11 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. But like, just to give one example, like people pleasing is the top one that I see among women and it's a coping mechanism.

So in childhood, if you were taught to be a good girl, to please everybody, to please your parents, or you'd get punished, to be nice to the creepy man who wants or the, whatever, grandpa that wants a hug and you don't want a hug.

Um, it's those, be nice, be kind, be a good girl, please everyone, serve everyone, that served, that helped you in childhood to not get shouted at or to, um, not get punished.

@51:54 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Mm-hmm.

@51:56 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

In adulthood, that turns into being... Constantly worried about, and also we could dive deep into it, but if you're in parent-child relationships or guardian relationships where you were worried about other people's emotions, so you were trying to manage, you learned to manage other people's emotions, then that is what you will do in adulthood is try not to disappoint people, don't upset them, make sure everybody's happy all the time, and that makes you very busy.

Because you say yes when you want to say no, you do projects that you aren't meant to do, and you end up being very busy because you're trying to meet all the demands.

I'm going to add to that, Sher. Mm-hmm. So, these patterns... And it's kind of going down another road, but the busyness in this sense becomes like an addiction.

@53:15 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@53:18 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It's because you're feeling safe in the busyness because if you relax, then all this stuff happens. You're lazy or whatever.

Um, so you can't relax. Your nervous system doesn't feel safe, but you also can use busyness as a numbing tool.

Yep.

@53:38 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@53:38 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

acts like any other numbing tool, like alcohol. Numbing emotions that you don't want to feel. Exactly. So you get criticized at work.

Um, let's say you didn't make your numbers as much as I was in sales. So if I didn't make my numbers, I would.

Get really busy making sure I made next month's numbers. And I also got busy not just to make my numbers next month, but I got busy to numb out the emotion, the embarrassment I felt for not hitting my target.

@54:16 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Oh my gosh, Jen. What? I just realized that my audacity is not, it shut down.

@54:24 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Oh crap. Okay. Well, let's stop then. Hang on. Let me just stop mine. I have no idea when it stopped.

@54:34 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Let's see. Okay. It allowed me to recover. Yep. Eight minutes in. Oh crap.

@54:41 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And now we are 40 minutes in. What happened? Like, is your computer running too many things in the background?

@54:50 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I think it's, I think there's too much. Like I noticed at one point I got this message. So, know,

from Google Chrome that I have to free up sites. I think there's too much on my computer. I'm so sorry.

That's all right.

@55:12 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

That's fine. Okay, here's what you need to do. I did this yesterday. Okay. Go to... Let just get my mic out of the way.

Okay. did this yesterday. I was actually going to send it to you. Are you on Apple or Mac?

@55:49 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Neither. I'm on a PC.

@55:52 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

That is... Sorry. That's what I meant. Okay. Google... how to clean up discs. right space.

@56:04 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

That's what that's the message I'm getting. It's like you need to free sites to clear disk space or something like that.

Okay.

@56:14 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Hang on. I got a thing yesterday where I could actually just hang on. If you go to your C drive.

So go to desktop. Hang on. Crap. I can't find my C drive. This is so annoying. So, that's not what I want.

Okay. What you want is to find your C. D drive. Oh, there it is. Way down there. Okay. I think you can actually, no, sorry.

Okay. You go to your settings. Hang on. Let me find it. Just read that and I'll just find it.

I'm just waiting for my settings to open up. Okay. You go to system in your settings. And then bridge.

Damn it. I should have saved the. Okay. Okay.

@58:00 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Well, I see here, like, I've been to this storage section before, and I'll go and remove, like, particularly from my downloads, like, files from my downloads, because I have a lot of downloads.

It's to take more than that.

@58:17 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay. Like, go to your, so, go here, go to your apps.

@58:24 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Installed apps? Yeah.

@58:26 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay. And then search, you can, you can sort by size.

@58:37 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

It's just spinning. I think it's, like, not even. Let me see here. I'm just going to turn off my video for a minute.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay, install the apps.

@59:14 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And on the right-hand side, you can sort it by large to small.

@59:21 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Are there any big apps that you don't need there? Uh, yeah, well, Acrobat, Adobe. Yeah, but you need that.

@59:34 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I need that.

@59:35 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Movie Maker, I probably don't need the Movie Maker. I mean, that comes with my thing, but... I'll take that off.

@59:52 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Sometimes it's, um, apps. Also, how did I get to my recycle bin? It took me for... I've done that.

@1:00:03 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I've emptied out my Recycle Bin.

@1:00:07 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I had to delete all of my downloads. All of them?

@1:00:13 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Hmm. Yeah.

@1:00:15 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Where do you store all your video and stuff?

@1:00:18 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

In OneDrive, like in the cloud.

@1:00:22 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Then you might also have to unsync it. I don't use OneDrive. I don't like it. So you might have to, like, OneDrive should have an option that I, where you only sync necessary files, or you can choose what you're going to sync.

@1:00:50 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So, but won't it just save on my computer then?

@1:00:55 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

No, it'll save it in the cloud. So the purpose of OneDrive, so if you unsync it, it will keep it into the, or I forget, I don't know what the command is, but what you want is to, like, there might be a thing that says make available offline, remove that, or just Google how to keep my OneDrive files in the cloud only or something like that.

And it'll tell you how to keep the stuff in the cloud so it's not saving to your computer.

@1:01:35 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I see. Because that's what it is.

@1:01:36 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It's all your video.

@1:01:39 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay. How to keep. Save disk space. Yes, okay. Win drive files on your hands, and you want your settings.

Oh. Hmm. I'm just trying to find it here. OneDrive, okay. I don't actually have any videos saved. And if you want to just do a couple of other things while I'm doing this.

@1:04:30 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Hi, Em. I'm going to go to the bathroom, actually, and maybe we should just take a break anyway and just go to eat something.

Did you find what you need to do?

@1:04:51 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

No, I'm just doing some other, like, cleaning up disk space. Yeah.

@1:05:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I deleted all my downloads because that's where a lot of like, you know, when you download something from Zoom, it goes to your downloads first and I save them elsewhere anyway.

So there's a ton if there's a ton of video in there, then you have to just trust that you're not going to use it anymore.

@1:05:19 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, you know what? That's probably what I need to do. Just delete it all. Yeah.

@1:05:25 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And then when you go back to your system, there might be freed space. Like I have a lot more space now.

There's like, still, it's still overly full. I still need a new computer, but I now have 13 gigs free at least.

So, um, but most, yeah, like, so I still have to go through, I don't know why I still have, yeah.

Anyway, it's video usually. Okay. Bye. And same with like our Google Drive, I set it, I did a setting.

Do you have our Google Drive saved to your desktop, like a link to your desktop, so it shows up in your file explorer?

No.

@1:06:26 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Oh, okay.

@1:06:27 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So that's not your problem.

@1:06:29 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I don't even know how to do that. Okay, I deleted all my downloads. Now I can go to Recycle Bin.

And empty. I to Recycle Bin. Okay. Okay, do you want to, um, you stopped the recording, right? Yeah. I need to go to bathroom.

I'm hungry.

@1:07:19 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay.

@1:07:20 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

got the call at one.

@1:07:22 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I know.

@1:07:24 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I know. This is the last, like, day that, like, it's... Why does this always happen when I'm, like, it's like when I'm busy, the universe throws me more.

@1:07:35 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. You know, like, this is the last possible time.

@1:07:39 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Pardon? It's reflecting you.

@1:07:42 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah.

@1:07:43 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So you're feeling overwhelmed.

@1:07:44 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So it's adding, like, so that's what happens. So take a break and get out of the overwhelm.

@1:07:53 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Um, okay, let's see how much Jessica's space is cleaned up here. Okay, Oh, Okay. Let's go take a break.

I will, um, it's 11, 11. Uh, go get something to eat and let's come back in what? 10 minutes, 15 minutes.

Yeah.

@1:08:22 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

should be pretty quick. Cause my yogurt's kind of ready. Yeah. Mine too.

@1:08:25 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay. All right.

@1:08:56 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

All right.

@1:19:18 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I'm here, I'm just, um, still working on clearing some space here. Thank you.

@1:23:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

In the process of my discipline up yesterday, I deleted pen.

@1:23:22 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I might need to restart my computer. Thank you. Then I'm going to log out for a second and just restart my computer.

Is that okay?

@1:24:30 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Thank you. Thank you. Oh, you're back, I think. We're back.

@1:31:12 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, I think I should be okay. It's still showing that there's a lot of, like, that I'm taking up a lot of space, but I've probably freed up enough.

Oops, I'm doing it.

@1:33:25 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Is it going sharp? Hello? I couldn't hear you. Can you hear me? Yeah, can you hear me?

@1:33:50 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Oh, there we go. I think I should be good. I'll have to do more clearing later, but. It should be enough for Audacity work.

Yeah.

@1:34:08 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay, let's finish this. Let's go get more. These workouts, I'm making, I think they're making me more hungry.

@1:34:18 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

What are? What's making you more hungry? The workouts.

@1:34:28 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Oh.

@1:34:30 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. I found that too.

@1:34:32 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I did a week five full body this morning. And in it was that bear thing where you, and we had never done this before, where you're in bear and you jump back and forward.

Oh, I hate that one.

@1:34:57 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

It's so hard.

@1:34:58 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

my goodness. I was was dying. There's a few that he hadn't done before today. And I was like, whoa, you kicked it up a notch.

This week, actually, week five, seems to be in particular.

@1:35:16 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Uh-huh. Yep. I went back to week one, and I finished the eight.

@1:35:27 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah, week eight was like...

@1:35:30 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Next level. Okay. I'm so disappointed. I feel like that episode was going really well. I went to night.

@1:35:43 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And then now to actually... Do two? Well, we're not going to be able to do two. And... Because I've got the call at one.

@1:35:58 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I know.

@1:36:03 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I forgot what else I was going to say. Well, one thing I do want to say is we should probably tighten it up a little bit, if you can.

I will try to shorten my answers, and same goes for you. Oh, I know what I was going to say.

It's that when you try to record the same episode right after you've already recorded, it's like, did I say that in this episode?

Or the previous one?

@1:36:32 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I don't know. I know.

@1:36:38 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I got this powder with slippery elm and L-glutamine in it and a whole bunch of these things, and it doesn't taste very good.

@1:36:52 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

It's trying to taste good.

@1:36:56 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Succeeding. All right.

@1:37:07 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay. I want to tighten it up a bit, but then it's also like the stories and my chiming in.

I think that makes it interesting.

@1:37:17 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah, I don't think you should not chime in. I think you should still tell the stories, and I will do this too.

Just tell them shorter. Mm-hmm.

@1:37:27 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay. Okay, let me... Let get... Okay, so I don't think you should open it in. Uh... Yeah.

@1:37:48 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Oops. All right. You want to do like...

@1:38:00 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I don't think we need to do a whole Theta thing, but like, because I think I can get into that state fairly quickly.

But maybe just a breath to get back into it.

@1:38:10 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay.

@1:38:16 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Oh.

@1:38:22 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I should close my window anyways. It's not loud.

@1:38:36 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I need a Kleenex. not It's not loud. It's not loud. It's not It's not Okay. Okay.

@1:39:36 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Let me just test that audio again so that your audio is not coming out of Zoom.

@1:39:53 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. There we go.

@1:39:55 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay. Okay. You ready? Yep. Okay. Hitting record on audacity. Three, two, one.

@1:40:18 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

If you are a busy midlife woman who feels like you're running at full speed and you can't keep it up much longer, this episode is for you.

This is most of us in midlife. We all feel really busy. And maybe if you're anything like me, you've started to realize that maybe you're part of the reason for the busyness, but you still can't seem to stop yourself.

And I suspect that you're probably feeling like you're holding so many pieces together that you're terrified of dropping a ball.

I definitely feel. Like I'm going to miss something. It's Sheri here, in case I didn't mention that. And today we're going to uncover the hidden mistakes that feed this kind of chaotic feeling.

We're going to explore how subconscious patterns keep you stuck in overdrive. And we're going to reveal the maybe surprising patterns that are stealing your time and your calm.

Jen is an expert on busyness, so I'm going to pick her brain on all of this. And so if you're ready, let's begin.

Okay, Jen. I think we should dive straight. Okay. I liked what you did last time where you said, hey, Jen.

Oh, hey, Jen. Hey, Sher.

@1:41:54 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay.

@1:41:54 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay, I think we should dive straight into the good stuff as we normally do in our personal conversation. Conversations.

So I've got some questions for you. First one, you and I have talked about this, but for our listeners, can you talk about what your life looked like five years ago that really led you to this work?

@1:42:13 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. I was in the middle of my PhD, writing my dissertation. I had two consulting jobs on the go.

And I was teaching at a college level and I had a two-year-old. So there was a lot going on in my life.

And I felt that I had to do all of this because of financial pressures. But what? So I was crazy busy.

Like it was pretty insane. I was working weekends. I was trying to like, I was setting a rule for myself that I would only work six days a week.

@1:42:54 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Only six.

@1:42:54 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And I kept saying, okay, when. I finished this. It's all, it's going to slow down. When I get through my literature review, it's all going to slow down.

And that kept not happening. So eventually I had a conversation with my husband about dropping some of the paid work.

Cause I was just like, I just want to finish this dissertation. This is taking forever. Let me just finish this.

And so we agreed that I would stop doing the consulting work after the projects were done, dropped that. And I thought it was all going to get better.

And then it didn't.

@1:43:34 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@1:43:35 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And then I kept saying, when I'm done my dissertation, then it's going to, then I'll slow down and then it's going to get better.

And I kept doing this when something happens, when this project over is over, then I'm going to slow. I'm going to be, it's going to be slower.

So I kept when thening myself over and over. And when I finished my, PhD in 2022, I didn't, I didn't stop.

Yeah. I barely, I was going to take a month off. I barely took two weeks off. During those two weeks, I was doing stuff around the house that I had, you know, decluttering and stuff that I had been putting off for so long.

And I realized, I kind of knew it before that. I realized that I was doing it to myself.

@1:44:29 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay. Before we go into that part, I want to just jump back to something that you said a couple of minutes ago around the when and then, because I think, like, I hear that all the time.

In fact, I have a perfect example of what a conversation that we had in my book club recently. This is, if anybody from my book club is listening, thank you for all of the perfect examples.

I was talking about your book club.

@1:45:01 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I know.

@1:45:02 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And I love my book club. Like, it's one of the joys of my life. And yet we have, like, we're all midlife women.

We're all in our, I think right now we're all between 50 and 60. And so it's a perfect place to have all these conversations.

But I want to bring this up because it shows how, like, I think we think of this when and then thing coming up at work.

Like, when this project is done, then things will lighten up when, you know, that sort of thing. But this is a really great example of how it comes up in, like, everyday life.

So one of the girls suggested that we play, that we all learn how to play pickleball.

@1:45:48 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And so, go ahead. So one of the girls suggested that we learn how to play pickleball.

@1:45:59 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And so, go And it was kind of funny because she said, I feel like we're going to miss out on part of our retirement if we don't learn how to do this.

So a bunch of us chimed in and said, yep. And I'm one of those people that like, if I decide I'm going to do something, then I'm going to do it.

So we decided like Wednesdays are going to be the day I went and bought myself a pickleball paddle. I wanted to call it a racket.

And then it didn't happen. Like, I think we went out two Wednesdays and then I would ask like, who's in every Wednesday?

And there was always something, you know, somebody's at the cottage and somebody else is just busy that night, got home from work late and always an excuse for not being able to do it.

And so anyways, one of the girls, we were at our actual book club and one of the girls said, you know, maybe we should pick this back up in the fall.

And I started laughing because you and I have talked about this. And I'm like, you know, she started to say, and people started to chime in.

And they're like... Like, yeah, you know, like, I think things, it's really busy this summer. I think things should start to lighten up in the fall.

And I started to laugh and said, like, listen to you guys. Like, really? It's not going to lighten up in the fall.

Fall is busier than summer. Like, everything ramps up again in the fall. Yep. It's busier than ever.

@1:47:19 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah, just in a different way. Especially you have kids. Like, everybody feels so busy in September.

@1:47:26 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Mm-hmm. I hear that all the time. Because back to school.

@1:47:29 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yep.

@1:47:30 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And even if you have older children. Like, you're maybe helping your university-age kids back to school. Like, it's still, work starts to get busy again.

Everybody's back from vacation. And so they're like, okay, let's go. It's go time. And so I just wanted to mention that as, like, this is how this shows up in everyday life.

It's not just at work. Like, we do this to ourselves all the time. We put things off. Especially the fun stuff.

off. off. off. things off. go. So when and then, like when this happens, then things will lighten up.

@1:48:06 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I know, especially the fun stuff. I hear it all the time. New Year's resolution. I'm going to set better boundaries in January when things are slower, when it's easier.

I'm going to slow down in January. It happened. I'm going to slow down for the summer because I want to enjoy my summer.

It happens all the time and that doesn't happen. Yep.

@1:48:28 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, exactly. Because it doesn't work.

@1:48:31 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It just doesn't work. We can't wait till life slows down to slow down because life doesn't slow down.

@1:48:37 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Oh, that's such a good way of putting it. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So what's the big mistake we're making?

@1:48:49 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

There's several mistakes that women, if you're like us, are making. But the biggest mistake that I see is. There's a There's

Blaming it on how busy it is at work, how busy life is. Like what I've just said, how busy the situation is.

@1:49:07 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

External.

@1:49:10 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah, because it's not, busyness is not an external problem. Busyness is an internal problem. And that might sound harsh when I first say that to people.

It's like, no, I have a crazy busy job and too many demands on my time. And so that's what we do.

We blame it on everything. My job's crazy busy. I've got a billion demands on my time. I've got kids.

I've got to run them around. I've got to do this. I've to do it. The to-do list is too long.

@1:49:38 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. And it feels like, if I can just add to that, when I was in that, it felt like I couldn't let up anywhere.

Like I couldn't, all these demands on me, like I couldn't, I was like, well, if we want to make, like we have all these financial demands as well that we need to meet.

And... And I have people that I want to maintain relationships with. And like, it feels like, it really does feel like external pressure.

Like there isn't something that I can just let go of.

@1:50:14 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. And I would say that's actually the second biggest mistake that people make is thinking that they've got to drop something in order to slow down.

Like they say to me, I just need to reprioritize. Right. And they, and they think they've got to like drop something big and then they can't do it because that's going to feel weird.

Like, especially let's say you're a high performer at work. You can't like people in workplaces say this to me all the time.

They're like, well, that's going to be weird. Like people expect stuff from me and I'm the, I'm the go-to person for things and I'm reliable.

And that now that's going to be weird. I suddenly just say, no, I'm not going to do that big project.

Like, so we'll get to it later. But it's not about dropping a big thing and reprioritizing your life.

@1:51:06 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Right.

@1:51:07 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Because that's also making it about all the external stuff. Right.

@1:51:14 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

That's making the solution about the external stuff.

@1:51:18 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And that never really actually goes away.

@1:51:22 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

They'll just be something else. Exactly.

@1:51:24 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

The minute you drop one thing, then another thing will jump in to fill its place. And that will always be the case unless you start working on the internal problem.

Right.

@1:51:37 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay.

@1:51:38 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I do, Sheri, I want to say one thing first, is that if you, our listener, are in a culture at work where, you know, a toxic kind of culture where the culture is crazy busy and you're all expected to work 12-hour days, or weekends, or weekends,

Whatever, I have worked in those kinds of environments. You have, Sheri. So first thing I want to say is if you're in that kind of environment, leave as soon as you can.

Find something else. But because it's going to be even harder for you to buck the trend in that kind of culture.

@1:52:19 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, I totally, we were talking about this earlier, like I've worked for several different companies and one of them was very much like that.

Although on the surface of it, you know, they, my leaders would always say like, you're not expected to be here past five.

And yet, you know, they request something of me, you know, as I'm on my way out for dinner on a Friday night.

And I'm like, well, and when do you need this by? By Monday. So the, like, yeah, we're always told the expectation is not that you need to work on weekends or evenings, but then then But then But But then you.

And you felt like there was that pressure because they'd ask for something at the end of the day and you'd feel like, well, now I have to do this.

Like you'd feel guilty if you didn't. Yeah.

@1:53:11 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Well, and in my culture, we were expected, like it was, if you didn't show up at eight o'clock in the morning in the office and work till five, at least six, if not, like most people were in the office by 7am and staying till six or seven and then taking home work on the weekend.

And that was expected. Like they weren't saying we expect you to leave at five. They were saying we expect you to be in the office by eight.

@1:53:33 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, that's, yeah, that's, I mean, I think there's a lot of companies out there now who, who are like that.

And even, I almost wonder whether, whether the, like the whole work from home thing has just blurred all the lines.

Oh, it has.

@1:53:51 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

when we started working.

@1:53:52 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, we've worked, we started working from home and now there's no bookends to the day and. Yeah.

@1:53:59 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah.

@1:54:00 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And so you end up working and you got in the habit of working at night because during, because you'd have to take a few hours off during the day to take care of your kids or do something, take care of something.

And then you end up, and then that doesn't change when actually, when you're like back in the office or, or not, like even working from home, you're still doing that.

I'm doing that.

@1:54:22 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It's, it's one of the biggest complaints that I get from clients now is they're working from home and they're actually just like, I just want an office to go to.

So I can leave my work there because now it's just impeding on all of my home life. So yeah, it's, that's a, that is an external situation thing.

And what it requires is stronger boundaries from us. And we can talk about boundaries in a bit, but, but that is one of, well, we can talk about it now.

It's one of the mistakes that women make.

@1:54:53 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@1:54:53 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

The women that get are getting crazy busy by midlife and that it's not sustainable in midlife anymore is that they haven't been.

And aren't setting strong boundaries.

@1:55:04 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Right. And why aren't they doing that? Why aren't we doing that? Because we feel guilty.

@1:55:12 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It's selfish.

@1:55:14 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. And so I have a pretty good idea of where that comes from. Can you talk about the thing?

We're getting to the crux of the real problem here.

@1:55:28 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. Um, I wanted, what I wanted to talk about first was some of the things that our listeners might be doing to fix the problem.

@1:55:41 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yes, that's important. Let's go there first.

@1:55:45 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

That aren't, that are helpful, but not working. So, because this is what I was told and I thought I was just going to be able to fix my problem and figure it out by myself for years.

Before I finally got it. Help. Right. Because I was doing all the things that magazines told me and the media told me, and that was meditate.

So you can reduce, because it reduces your stress and it tells your nervous system that it's okay, you're calm, you're safe.

Or practice yoga, exercise, continue to like, because that's going to help release stress. All these things to help release stress.

Take self-care. I was doing all the stuff.

@1:56:31 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And what I learned and none of, and it would help like, yeah, okay.

@1:56:34 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I could meditate and wind down for my day.

@1:56:38 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

But I realized it.

@1:56:40 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

In fact, I was sitting in a meditation one day and went, none of this is going to work unless I actually get to the root of the problem of why I'm so stressed in the first place.

@1:56:53 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. The thing that I hear so often from, cause I teach a lot of meditation and so many women have.

I've said to me, oh, I can't meditate. My to-do list is just running through my mind the whole time.

And I think what's happening there is you try to sit down and meditate and then your nervous system ramps up because it's saying, wait a sec, to-do list, to-do list, to-do list.

Like there's all these things you need to get done. And so it's counterproductive to actually sit down and meditate when your mind, when your nervous system is all wired up because it thinks this is not safe.

I have to go and do all this. I'm putting off all of these other things and I'm getting behind now because now I'm sitting here for five minutes or 10 minutes or whatever.

Yep, absolutely.

@1:57:46 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And actually, I don't know what to call her. She's an acquaintance colleague. Her name is Sue Belton, wrote a book called Screw Meditation.

@1:58:00 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Oh, that's interesting.

@1:58:01 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

she was walking the park one day going, screw meditation. This doesn't work. And she's a coach as well. She realized that meditation doesn't work for everybody because for some people it's just sitting in absolute torture because their nervous system feels so unsafe.

On the other hand, sitting for five minutes and allowing your to-do list to run through your head can help your brain to process it.

Because that's what meditation is, is like allowing, is watching your thoughts.

@1:58:37 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yes. It's trying to stop your thoughts.

@1:58:40 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It's trying, it's allowing your thoughts to run and then observing your thoughts. So if you're observing your to-do list run in your head, it's, that helps your brain to process it.

@1:58:51 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep. I have said that so many times that meditation is not about clearing your mind. It's about noticing what's filling it up.

@1:59:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Mm-hmm. That's a great way to say it. So, so those are some of the things that, that I see women trying to do to fix it.

And, or the other thing is like, they try to like discipline themselves into being less busy or setting better boundaries.

And that doesn't work because there's no amount of willpower that will help. If you have these internal drivers that are telling you to be busy and they do the, when, then like, I'm just going to work harder and longer till I get over this hump.

@1:59:35 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. then I'm going to slow down.

@1:59:37 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So none of those things work to fix the problem.

@1:59:41 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Well, and one of my clients said to me yesterday, she said, and she has said this a couple of times and she said it again, because hasn't like, hasn't been able to kind of get beyond it.

She will say, okay, at the end of the day, I'm going to sit down and I'm going to read a book.

Or I'm going to go out into the garden and have just some relaxation time or whatever. And, you know, two hours later, she finds herself still at her laptop, not having done anything productive, like really just, you know, clearing out her inbox or like whatever, like nothing really, truly productive.

And she called it procrastination. And I think something else is going on there. Like that is trying to discipline yourself into going and doing the thing, like the relaxing, the self-care, whatever.

And there's something keeping her from doing that. That's more than just procrastination. Right? Totally. Totally.

@2:00:49 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It's why this whole, this whole self-care industry, communication, media stuff drives me crazy because they're always telling us. Take self-care and that's going to help you reduce your stress.

But many women and my client, like our clients come to us because they can't, because they feel guilt. First of all, because self-care feels like this big thing.

Like it's got to be a bath. It's got to be a massage. Go get a facial. Like we, the, the media has turned self-care into a thing.

@2:01:27 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@2:01:27 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And we don't always feel like we can take, yeah, we can't take an hour out of the day to go get them or more to get a massage or whatever.

So there's this misconception about what self-care actually is. Right. And it can be small things like, oh, let me get to that in a second.

And the second thing that is that they miss is that, um, self-care feels impossible for crazy, busy women. Yeah.

@2:01:58 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Because they, they feel.

@2:02:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

They're like, they can't take a break because they might drop a ball. There's too much pressure at work. And they feel guilty then when they actually do it, when, if they, if they actually do it, they feel guilty and selfish.

And then there's overthinking after like, Oh man, now I took that hour out for myself. And now I have fewer hours to work on that presentation.

That's due. Right. So like they spend the whole time or even like at your kid's soccer game. one, one client recently told me this, she said, I sit there and I calculate the hours that I now, the, the fewer, like the time that I have left to work on whatever the presentation.

So she's unable to be present and relax. It's counterproductive.

@2:02:44 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@2:02:44 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It's, it doesn't, it doesn't work. Yeah.

@2:02:47 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So go back to the, um, you were going to say something about the self-care.

@2:02:52 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Oh, it's actually kind of like a tip. And that is that self-care doesn't have to be big itself. Healthcare is like, I'm in the shower even in the morning for five minutes, just saying, I am nurturing myself in the shower.

I'm nourishing myself. Instead of what I used to do was I'd think about what I was going to wear.

I was thinking about what I was going to make for my lunch, what I had to do that day.

Like the to-do list was already running in the shower. And I finally stopped and said, okay, I'm just going to enjoy feeling the water come over my head.

@2:03:27 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Because that's when all the good ideas come. It's true if we're actually present. Presence really is self-care these days.

Like just being present for a moment, you know, when you're out walking or even when you're exercising. Like when I'm working out in the morning, sometimes I'm like barely paying attention to the guy on the screen.

Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking about what's next. Mm-hmm.

@2:03:59 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Thank

@2:04:00 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So I think what you're saying is, can we just be present and find the joy or the bliss or the whatever it is in the moment?

And that is self-care.

@2:04:15 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. And you know what? A lot of people are like, oh, yeah, here's another person telling me to be present.

So a couple other ideas for self-care is just take the supplement that's in the cupboard. Yeah. Take 30 seconds to take the supplement because I know how many women walk straight by it.

I've done this myself. It's on the counter. And I walk straight by it because I'm like, oh, I'll just take it later because I've to get back to my desk.

@2:04:40 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep. Oh, yeah. The number of my clients who tell me they have a supplement graveyard in the back of their cupboard because they're not, they know, they don't want to throw them away because they know someday they need to take it.

They would like to. They'd like to find the benefits of those supplements, but they can't get themselves. an Yeah.

@2:05:02 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. Yeah. Until they expire.

@2:05:04 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@2:05:05 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And they die. Yeah.

@2:05:08 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So should we move on to what is really underlying this? You've sort of alluded to it, but let's be a bit more specific.

Okay.

@2:05:18 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

There are three, not things, but three things that are causing this. And the first one actually is external. Like remember I said earlier that it's not the external situation, it's internal.

So it is internalized beliefs about busyness that we have absorbed from society. Right, Blake? You got to hustle to be successful.

Money doesn't grow on trees. Yeah. And busyness. Busyness is what makes you successful. And what that has turned into is busyness means I'm successful.

@2:06:09 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yes. So it used to be cause and effect.

@2:06:13 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Hustle leads to success. Now it's hustle equals success. Right.

@2:06:21 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, that's so true. If I'm busy, I must be important. And so then I must be successful.

@2:06:28 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

That's why, Sheri, I caught myself a couple of years ago at breakfast with Di.

@2:06:36 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Our sister, Diane.

@2:06:38 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And we were talking about work and our day, like what our day looked like or whatever. And she starts her day at eight.

She's been working eight till five for years. Mm-hmm. And I was, I didn't want to tell her that I start my day at nine.

There was a slight embarrassment. Yeah.

@2:06:59 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And what a... Our own sister, which is ridiculous.

@2:07:01 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

But what I was feeling was the judgment from society about starting my day later, which means I'm less busy, so I must not be as successful.

@2:07:17 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. I bet you there's some listeners who can relate to that.

@2:07:23 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

But it is so pervasive. Like a lot of people will know this too. Like, yes, we praise busyness. And like one example, the way this came up in my life years ago.

So I was working at a company that was actually a very easy company to work for. was Seagram Universal, a distillery.

Like we made a lot of profit and nobody worked past five. Mm hmm.

@2:07:50 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And so I was working in this job.

@2:07:53 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

was working nine to five. had easy days and I met up with all my MBA friends like soon after we had graduated.

And they were all working in finance and whatever. And they're all working these 80 hour weeks and they were bragging about it.

Yes.

@2:08:08 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. Oh, I know that feeling. Or I know that. I know those people. And they were making fun of my cushy job.

@2:08:16 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And I just wanted to shrink. I was like, I must not be as successful. So it is, it's reinforced by society.

And if we've internalized it, like we've taken on this belief and we, a part of us believes it ourselves, ourselves, then, then you will stay busy because you won't feel valuable unless you are busy.

@2:08:40 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep. Well, and going back to the conversation that we were having earlier about the culture of your workplace and how that can really instill itself in you.

It's interesting to me that you were working for a company that did not have that busy, like work beyond five sort of culture.

And yet you still felt. You pressure from your friends who were working these long hours. Yeah.

@2:09:08 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And I wanted them. Yeah.

@2:09:10 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Isn't that ridiculous?

@2:09:11 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I was 27 years old and I wanted that. Yeah. And so I got it because I was preconceived or preconceived.

How do I say it? Like predisposed.-programmed, predisposed, yeah.

@2:09:27 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Predisposed to it.

@2:09:30 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

By my childhood, which I'm going to talk about in a second. And so, yeah, I got busy and I stayed that way until I burned it.

Yeah.

@2:09:40 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay. We need to take a quick break here because I don't know if I've ever told our listeners that I have a dog.

You know this. And Parker is, because our editor is not going to be able to edit out all of the snoring.

He refuses to sit outside of my studio when we're recording. And I don't know if you can hear this, Jen, but...

He's snoring.

@2:10:01 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

No, I can't hear. get him to stop.

@2:10:05 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay. Okay. Well, let's keep going. Yeah.

@2:10:08 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And we will let him, let our editor, work his magic. Or not.

@2:10:18 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay. So. Where were we at?

@2:10:23 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Oh, number two. Yeah.

@2:10:24 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Right? Sure.

@2:10:26 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah, number two. Okay. So the second thing is that busyness acts like an addiction.

@2:10:36 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yes.

@2:10:38 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So like any other addiction, when we feel vulnerable, when we feel criticized, when we feel self-doubt, all those negative narratives that run in the back of our minds that we don't notice or that we notice, but push away, busyness helps us to push them down.

Even. Even. Negative emotions like anger, grief, sadness, and shame. When we feel those emotions and we want to run away from them, we get busy.

Yeah.

@2:11:14 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Oh, I totally do this. Yeah.

@2:11:16 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Busyness numbs them just like any other numbing addiction. Yeah. Alcohol, drugs, Netflix. It acts like a numbing tool. Yeah.

@2:11:32 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. I have done, I definitely have done that. I didn't realize I was doing it until I watched mom do it.

She got angry about something and started cleaning up, washing dishes, like furiously washing dishes.

@2:11:47 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And you know, and then rage cleaning. Yes.

@2:11:50 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Rage cleaning. I totally do that. And I didn't know that I was doing that until Mike pointed it out, my husband, and said, what are you mad about?

I can tell. 6 sós. he didn't call it rage cleaning, but that's what I was doing.

@2:12:04 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Because it helps us, like when Sherwin would criticize me for something, not that he did it often, but every once in while, he'd criticize me for not putting stuff away.

And so what would I do? And I, this would trigger me like crazy because I do put stuff away and I used to put all his stuff away too.

And so I get really triggered by it and I would start, then I would start cleaning up because not just to offset what he said to put stuff away, but, or like even, so here's a better example.

Cleaning up the dishwasher. I had asked him a billion times to stack it neatly and it's a guy thing.

They don't know how to stack dishwashers.

@2:12:55 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I think it's a guy thing.

@2:12:56 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I don't It's a guy thing.

@2:12:59 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Tell me the exact same.

@2:13:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Same things about their husbands. But I've also seen reels of husbands who stack nicely and their wives don't. So I'd be like, if he would stack the dishwasher wrong, according to me, the control freak, I would get all triggered.

I'd be like, he doesn't listen to me. doesn't do what I ask. And then I would start fixing it.

Mm hmm.

@2:13:23 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And one day I was sitting there fixing it going.

@2:13:26 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I'm making myself busier than I need to be because this does not have to be stacked properly. Yeah, it will still wash.

I'm making busyness for myself.

@2:13:39 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. I bet you there are some listeners out there who are like, yep, I resect the dishwasher.

@2:13:45 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah, we arrange to stop myself doing I know I still have to stop myself anyway. So, um, so it can act like an addiction.

And just another note on that is, like, I used to think that workaholism like workaholism. Like, workaholics, quote unquote, because that's not really a word, but they love work.

That's what I thought. Oh, yeah.

@2:14:09 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And that is completely untrue.

@2:14:13 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It's that they can't stop themselves. Yeah.

@2:14:17 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. It is actually a holic. Like, it's an addiction. Mm-hmm.

@2:14:24 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Mm-hmm. So it's because you want to stop, but you feel like you have to do a certain amount in order to prove that you're worthy of your role or your pay or you're proving your value at work.

And a lot of my clients will say this to me. They're like, I'm proving my value. I know I am.

@2:14:42 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Oh, like they actually will say that out loud. Yeah, they know it.

@2:14:47 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And they don't know how to stop it.

@2:14:51 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yes. One of my clients called it the, um, I'm hustling for my worth.

@2:14:55 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Mm-hmm. That's exactly what we've been told to do.

@2:14:59 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Mm

@2:15:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So it's an addiction in two senses. One, in that it helps us numb out the emotions we don't want to feel.

It also, I just lost my train of thought. Another midlife thing.

@2:15:19 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I know.

@2:15:22 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

We were just talking about how we have to hustle to prove our worth. Oh, it helps us to, like, it's an addiction because if we don't feel like we have value, then we will stay busy, like addicted to busyness until we feel worthy.

Internally.

@2:15:50 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. Internally. Yep.

@2:15:52 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So that's why my clients know that they're trying to prove their worth with this busyness.

@2:15:59 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Or by.

@2:16:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

By like saving the day, like they jump in to solve the problem and save the day, but they can't, they're like, but I don't know how to stop myself.

@2:16:08 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@2:16:08 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And so that's, that's the crux of it is it's an addiction like any other, you can't stop it. So you feel worthy and deserving and valuable.

@2:16:19 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. Can we also go back to, and maybe this is number three. I think you said there was three, right?

@2:16:26 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah.

@2:16:26 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Before I, before I jump in, what's number three? Cause maybe you're going to talk about this.

@2:16:32 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Number three is that our brains don't feel safe. It's connected. Our brains don't feel safe, resting or playing relaxing.

Yeah. So we, we develop coping mechanisms in our childhood and beliefs and fears.

@2:16:49 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep.

@2:16:51 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

That are now driving our behavior today. Right. That keep us in this case that keep us busy. They drive other behavior.

They behaviors. There's two, but they keep us busy.

@2:17:04 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep. Are we going?

@2:17:08 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

No.

@2:17:11 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Carry on with that one because I think you had some examples of how like something in childhood could lead to these coping mechanisms that we use today.

Well, actually, let me, we want to talk about this. But the thing that I wanted to go back to was, I don't, we didn't really talk about, like we talked about how society like sort of values busyness.

And, but I don't think we called out like the ideal, the identity of the busy mom. Oh, okay.

@2:17:53 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Let's just go back to number one for a second, which is all the identities. second. Please. That society, Western society anyway, praises the busy executive, the busy mom, the strong and independent woman who does it all, Wonder Woman.

Like we glorify the people who live up to those identities. Even like the mom who, like the mom who we say, yeah, she just served everybody.

Oh, the martyring.

@2:18:32 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

The martyring.

@2:18:33 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

We think that that was a wonderful trait. Yes, especially.

@2:18:37 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

That is a wonderful trait.

@2:18:39 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay.

@2:18:40 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I had a conversation and maybe I've talked about this on one of our other episodes, but I had a friend who lost his mom.

We probably had this conversation a couple of years ago now. And he started talking about her with so much reverence that it...

It broke my heart, but what he said also broke my heart for her because what he was revering was her selflessness.

You know, he lived in a family of four boys and they lived on a farm and he said she was so selfless, always taking care of us, never taking care of herself.

And I just thought, oh my gosh, like she never got to take care of herself. And I think it's that martyring, this praise that we hear from, I think more so men than women will say things like that, that makes us want to be like that, like subconsciously.

Women say it too.

@2:19:52 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Sometimes they say it with more like resentment because they can't live up to that mom.

@2:19:58 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. Oh yes. I've had a friend who's... She that.

@2:20:02 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Like, she's making us all look bad or whatever. Yep. So, and then like for, for women who don't have children, then you've got, well, I can't have the mom part.

I can't live up to that busy mom thing. So I'm going to get busy. Oh yeah.

@2:20:20 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

If I'm not, if I can't have the mom part, I am sure as heck going to be busy.

@2:20:26 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. And it's not, not as a, it's not a conscious thing.

@2:20:30 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Like we don't actively do that, but yes, that's the number of times, Jen, that I hear particularly on podcasts and that sort of thing.

Like where the guest will say, you know, I'm a busy mom. So blah, blah, blah, or as a busy mom time people like, it's like they, they have this identity.

@2:20:55 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I'm a busy mom and they're going to stick by it. So then back to the addiction, you don't. If you carry that identity and you pride yourself in that, what society has praised, you internalize that societal belief, then you are, by hell and high water, going to stay busy to maintain that identity.

So anything that chips away at it, like slowing down or not being busy, your nervous system won't feel safe.

Yep. Because our nervous systems don't like giving, like our egos don't like giving up identities. And that can be at a cellular nervous system level.

Oh, yeah.

@2:21:38 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And I heard somebody say this just yesterday, one of my other clients. She's a corporate client. She said, it was Friday, asked her what she was doing for the weekend.

And she said, I'm not really doing much. And I'm really happy about that. Like. She had to qualify it.

To make sure that I knew that she wanted it that way. It wasn't because she didn't have enough to do of a busy social life or other stuff.

She was actually happy about it. I found that so interesting. I've noticed that people do that kind of thing all the time.

I probably did it too.

@2:22:31 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Well, that's why I'm laughing. I'm not laughing at her.

@2:22:34 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I'm laughing because I know that.

@2:22:37 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I've done it myself. And I still do it at times. I talk about all this stuff, but I still catch myself doing it too or saying it.

We're human.

@2:22:48 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@2:22:49 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. Yeah.

@2:22:50 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So talk, talk a bit more about the nervous system. Like you, I think we were starting to talk about the coping mechanisms and how the nervous system will.

We'll kick in when our brain feels unsafe.

@2:23:05 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah, so let me, up to 90% of our behavior is automatic. Most people are kind of aware of that.

But what we don't do is take that a step further and realize that if our behavior is automatic and driven by our subconscious, how do you expect to change your behavior?

@2:23:33 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Oh, right. You'd have to get to the subconscious. Right.

@2:23:36 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

You have to change the subconscious fears and beliefs. And those subconscious fears, beliefs, patterns, we learn in our childhood.

When they served us, they might have served us back then to keep us safe, but they're not serving us anymore.

So what's an example?

@2:23:58 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@2:23:59 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So when... When I talk about, so fears can be in the present or back then. Like fear, it could be, I'm going to stay busy.

I am going to kick at work because I want to get it promoted and I don't want to lose my job.

And I need my financial situation to stay stable. We might not be consciously thinking that every day.

@2:24:25 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

That's a subconscious belief.

@2:24:27 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I need to keep this job in order to maintain stable finances, which then also works back to, so I have food on the table and shelter.

@2:24:38 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep. So it's your brain keeping you safe.

@2:24:40 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Right. So that works in the present moment. It also works backward to a belief that you have chosen in your childhood.

So let's say you got punished as a child for whatever, making mistakes. Some kids rebel. Others, like us, tried our hardest to be good girls.

@2:25:07 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Right.

@2:25:08 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I was going to try to be perfect, to please mom and dad so that I wouldn't get punished again.

Yep. Um, and in particular with us, like with, with the way that, you know what? I won't get into that story.

Um, so we, we, we developed patterns, perfectionism and people pleasing to avoid punishment. Yep.

@2:25:48 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Keeping us safe.

@2:25:50 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

and get mom's love. Right. And so that kept us safe as children. Children, kind of, it didn't always stop us from getting punished, but because no matter how hard you try as a kid, you're not going to, you're going to make mistakes and you're going to be perfect.

Now, people pleasing and perfectionism are subconscious patterns that run or were running my life. Yeah. They were pervasive across everything.

I needed to be the perfect wife, the perfect mother. Couldn't make a mistake at work. So these patterns continued to drive my behavior and they made me busy in so many ways.

@2:26:39 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Right.

@2:26:41 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

First, because perfecting makes you busy. Yeah.

@2:26:44 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Because then you're perfecting and you're checking three times and you're- Rewriting and rewriting and rewriting. Yes.

@2:26:51 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Trying not to make mistakes. So that keeps you unnecessary, like overly busy. Yeah. Also, you stay busy trying to be perfect in every-

Aspect of your life, because you're trying to avoid the emotions that you might feel if you're not perfect. Right.

@2:27:07 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So when we weren't perfectly- It's works together. Yeah, it's all connected.

@2:27:12 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

When we weren't perfect as children, and we made mistakes, or we did something wrong, we got punished, then we got shamed.

The punishment was shame.

@2:27:27 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Right.

@2:27:28 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So still today, if I make a mistake, I still feel shame. Yeah. Or if I don't please somebody, like if I let somebody down, if I disappoint somebody, it's not actually about them.

I feel shame from that. Like I'm a bad person.

@2:27:52 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep. So all of these three, I'm going to start summing up, these three things.

@2:27:59 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

three three things. I'm I'm Make us overly busy. And unless these three things, the societal conditioning, the busyness as an addiction, and the childhood patterns and beliefs that we learned, our subconscious, that we learned from our parents and caregivers, coping mechanisms, they all work together.

And they can make you overly busy. And when you hit midlife, you can't sustain that kind of busyness anymore.

Right.

@2:28:33 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

No, you can't. going through all these other changes.

@2:28:35 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Like, it's impossible. And suddenly, that's when women come to us and they go, I can't sustain this anymore. I need to get help.

@2:28:43 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Well, and this is the link between, you know, everything that we're talking about. The symptoms that you feel, the physical symptoms that you feel, link back to the adrenal glands being overworked because they're overstressed.

Thank Thank you. Thank because you're over busy. And so we can't just take the supplements or the medication or the HRT or whatever.

Like working only with the physical is only one aspect. If you don't dial it back to what's causing the adrenal burnout in the first place, the busyness and the subconscious beliefs and societal judgment that are causing that busyness, then the whole, like you got to start with that foundation, right?

@2:29:35 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

That's totally right, Sher. Like it's, you need all the pieces of the puzzle. Yeah.

@2:29:41 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

To really heal.

@2:29:43 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah.

@2:29:45 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So what, so just wrapping it up, what could our, I think you've given a couple of tips, what could, what action could our listeners do to start rewiring their brain now?

Those subconscious beliefs.

@2:30:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

This is the very first step that I take my clients through, and that is getting out a journal and writing down what you believe about busyness.

@2:30:11 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

That's a good one. You start creating a list.

@2:30:14 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

What did my parents teach me? What did they tell me? Was it like money doesn't grow on trees? Come on, got to hustle.

Don't make mistakes if you got shamed for not getting perfect grades. What did they say? What did they say about rest?

@2:30:30 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Was it lazy?

@2:30:31 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Did they value sleep and rest and play? So write down that list because you may uncover some things that you believe that you didn't even realize you believed, and that's the first step is just becoming aware.

Yep.

@2:30:49 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I think that is such an important step is the awareness is actually like that's breaking open Pandora's box, and everything will start to shift.

@2:31:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And it starts to shift immediately once you brought it, bring it to the surface. And then the problem is that you can't look back.

Like that now you've opened up Pandora's box. You can't close it again.

@2:31:11 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I'm going to put in a plug here.

@2:31:13 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

If you do find that this opens up Pandora's box for you and you need some help, we have a program, we call it the Midlife Red Tent.

And you can come join us and we will help you with all the three pieces of the puzzle in helping you heal from the burnout and the symptoms using the three pieces of the puzzle, which is body, mind, and spirit.

Yeah, thank you.

@2:31:40 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

We'll drop that. We'll drop a link to join that wait, listen to the show notes.

@2:31:44 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. And also to that book that you referenced, Screw the Meditation. Screw Meditation. I'll put that in the show notes too.

Yeah.

@2:31:51 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Cut out to Sue.

@2:31:52 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It's a great book. Yep.

@2:31:55 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay. Anything, any last thoughts? Jen, on this before we close off?

@2:32:06 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

No, I think I would just encourage our listeners to start writing that list. Yep. And keep on listening because we're going to talk more about what these patterns are in the next couple of episodes.

Yes. I've identified six of them, and we'll be talking about what's underneath them, what are the root causes, so that you can start to release them even more and actually get time back.

@2:32:36 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep. I can't wait for those. Okay. Well, thanks, Jen, for all of your expertise on this. And to our listeners, if you liked this episode, share it with a friend who needs it.

Rate. Review. That's how other women find it. So we would be forever grateful if you did that. And we'll see you next week.