13: The Subtle Signs People Pleasing is Running Your Life

You’ve spent decades putting everyone else first.  You stifle your voice so you don't rock the boat or upset anyone.  You're always making sure everyone is happy.  And now you're exhausted and maybe even a little resentful. 

 If that sounds familiar, you’re not alone. In this episode, we’re unpacking the patterns of people-pleasing in midlife and the mistakes you might be making to try to stop.

Here's what you're going to discover in this episode:

• The subtle signs of people pleasing and how to tell if it’s running your life.
• Mistakes you’re making in an attempt to stop yourself 
• The hidden beliefs and behaviors that have kept you in this pattern for years.
• The mindset shifts that are going to free you to put yourself first

If you’ve ever felt like saying yes is easier than dealing with conflict or disappointment… or that your worth is measured by how much you give, this episode is a must-listen.

Find out which of the 6 midlife coping strategies is costing you the most: Take the Quiz

Get the details for our Midlife Red Tent Retreat in the Sacred Valley of Peru. 

Find us on instagram:

Jen: @jenreimercoaching

Sheri: @sherijohnsoncoaching

Transcript

Okay, I really want to know if you can relate to this. You said yes, when you wanted to say no, again, and again, and again.

You've put everyone else first, maybe your friends, your family, your co-workers, clients, the boss, even the dog. I put the dog before me sometimes, a lot of times.

And at the end of the day, you feel like you've taken care of everyone else but you. And that leaves you interested and maybe even resentful of either the people demanding or just the 8 million demands on your time.

If that hits close to home, then this episode is for you. Even if you already know you're people-pleased there and are...

A recovering people pleaser. Today we're diving into people pleasing in midlife. How to recognize the signs that you are one.

The hidden mistakes that are keeping you stuck. And how it links to menopause symptoms. This is something that nobody else talks about.

By the end of our conversation between Jen and I, you might even recognize the patterns that are driving your own people pleasing.

And the mistakes that you might be making that actually make it worse. And what you need to do to think for good.

So if you're, then let's get started. Welcome back to the Midlife Rising podcast.

@42:46 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Hi, Jen. Hey.

@42:50 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I am excited to talk about this topic. And because it is so common, the number of women that tell me that they are...

People-pleasers or recovering people-pleasers is, like, I think almost everybody I know.

@43:08 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Well, Sheri, from my research that I did for my previous leadership business, people-pleasing was the number one of the six ways that women keep themselves busy.

People-pleasing was the number one. Yeah.

@43:24 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, it's something that all my clients talk about. They want to stop. That they, you know, they call themselves recovering people-pleasers because they've become aware that they are one, and they try to force themselves to say no when they're trying not to do whatever it is, and yet they still can't seem to do it.

@43:53 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

No, and you know what? There are some, so I was talking to mom about this recently, and because I was trying to explain to her.

you. Thank One of the things that we're working on. And she said to me, well, do people actually need help with that?

Because when I found out that I was a people pleaser, I just stopped. And I was sort of like, well, that's because you're not a people pleaser.

But she was pleasing other people in her younger days. But she doesn't have the same underlying, what do I want to call them?

Issues that caused her to not stop. So you and I are people pleasers.

@44:34 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I've always known it, or at least for a very long time.

@44:39 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And for a very long time, couldn't stop.

@44:43 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I did not know I was a people pleaser. I don't know if I really actually put very much thought into it.

Really. Oh, okay. I think what drew my attention to it was, was really all the work. I was always accommodating everybody around me.

I sort of thought, well, I don't have kids. I sort of thought, well, I don't have kids, so I must have more time than they do.

So I would always offer, I was always offering, well, I can come to you. Like all my friends who live two hours away from me.

And even with our family, like I would say, well, it's too much for you guys to drive all the way up to Collingwood.

We'll come to you. doesn't, like, we're good with that. Or, you know, or I would offer to bring stuff.

Like, let me bring all the food. Or let me, I was always overextending. And I never realized I was doing that.

I sort of justified it because I thought, well, I have more time than you. And yet what I realized was I didn't have the time for a whole bunch of reasons that we're going to get into, but I didn't realize that that was people pleasing.

There was no like no in there, yes or no. It was actually me.

@46:21 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And I was trying to- Offering. It was me offering, yeah.

@46:25 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And I was trying, but yet I was trying to please my friends and my family and whoever.

@46:35 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

That's a great example because people often think of people pleasing as like saying yes to everything.

@46:43 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@46:44 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And that's the easiest way for me to talk about it, but it's so much more. And on that note, Sheri, I do it too.

And I am the one with the child. Like it doesn't matter. I'm always, I mean, now I catch myself, but I will find myself thinking, like if I'm making a coffee date with somebody, I'll think, oh, well, I should think of a place that's close to where they are and go there.

Yes. And then I'm like, wait a minute, why should I go to them? And what that is, is it's putting more value on their time than on my own time.

@47:28 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@47:31 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Which is putting them above me.

@47:33 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Exactly. Essentially. So why don't we start, Jen, by talking about how do you know if you're a people pleaser?

Like we just talked about two, like one of the things that we do when we're people pleasers, but, and how it's not just a matter of saying yes, when you really want to say no.

There's all kinds of different ways that this can show up. in pain? Now But I don't think, like, I think you're going to probably tell me some things that I hadn't even thought of.

So why don't you talk a bit about that?

@48:09 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay, so to sum it up, actually, I actually love the way Brene Brown sums it up. She says that people pleasing is putting your value in or defining your value as how you are received.

@48:29 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Oh, that's a different way of saying it. Which, okay, so for people who don't, who haven't read all of Brene Brown's books, which, do you know which book that was from?

So we can link that up in the show notes.

@48:43 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I do not.

@48:45 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay. Brene Brown's show notes.

@48:48 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. So, um, so it's like, if you have a creative project, you're not necessarily somebody who's who's who Thank

She talking to me about this on a call the other night. She used to do her art. She's a painter.

And she was painting to try to sell the painting. was painting in the hopes that everybody else would like it.

And at the last minute, she was doing a gallery show. At the last minute, she did three more paintings that she just painted.

They didn't match the rest of the collection at all. She just painted three paintings that were from her heart.

She's just like, this is what I want to paint. And I'm just going to do it and put it in any way, no matter how it looks.

And I forget why she decided suddenly to do that. And those were the first to sell.

@49:44 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@49:45 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Because she was, and she said this to me, I was putting all my value on how this creative project was being received by others.

@49:56 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Right. So it's whether it's like.

@49:59 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Your own. It could be like whatever you have created. It could be like we hear it from entrepreneurs in our mentorship programs all the time where there's lots of people who get really upset when people don't want to buy their stuff because you're taking it personally.

@50:17 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Right. So, yeah, that's how you know you're placing your value on something external to you and somebody's opinion of you, someone's opinion of your work, someone's judgment of you.

Yeah.

@50:29 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

You're giving away your value and sourcing it externally instead of feeling innately valuable.

@50:34 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Right. I really love that phrase, outsourcing your value to something external.

@50:41 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's like you're instead of, yes, cultivating it internally. And most of us, like if I use the term self-worth, most people, I mean, certainly when I started talking about it, people would be like, well, you have lots of self-worth.

What are you talking about? Because I looked like I had it all on the outside. I had the. And I always had everything put together.

And I always hit my numbers. But inside, there was all this self-doubt.

@51:07 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@51:09 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So self-doubt is another sign that you are people-pleasing because you are waiting for acceptance from somebody externally.

@51:23 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep. That makes sense.

@51:26 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

What else?

@51:27 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

No.

@51:28 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Some basics are you don't like rocking the boat. You don't like upsetting people. You don't like it when people are annoyed with you.

@51:42 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Stop right there for a second, Jen. Because I think, like, just to sort of drive those home, I think what I've experienced with a lot of my clients is this idea of it's all about saying...

... ... ... ... ... ... ... And no, instead of yes, like saying yes, when I want to say no, it's about a boundary.

And it's so much more than that. It's like take not wanting to rock the boat. So that's people pleasing because you're concerned about somebody else's emotions.

So you're literally trying to please them, to make them feel good instead of maybe making them question what they're talking about or making them maybe feel bad for their opinion or their idea.

@52:38 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Or that's managing people's emotions.

@52:43 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And, and that is people pleasing. And I know I had never really thought of that as people pleasing until more recently.

Yep.

@52:53 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Biting your tongue. Yep. So you don't say what you want to say or just being quiet. Like I noticed this, this was 15.

I was at a party and there was, in South Africa, it's always very, there were lots of heated debates about politics and stuff.

It was fun. However, at first, I was very afraid to voice my opinion with my own friends. And some of them were more like acquaintances, but I was afraid in even those settings to voice my opinion.

And that's people pleasing because I was, I didn't want to rock the boat. I didn't want, I was afraid people wouldn't like me if they didn't like my opinion about something.

Yeah.

@53:38 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Well, and okay, maybe I'll, maybe I'll hold my tongue at this moment because I wanted to say something about how that relates.

Like there's actually risk there, right? Maybe this is the right time to talk about it. There's risk in sharing your opinion.

If you're, because we have such an innate and. It's an evolutionary need to belong. And so there's this deep-rooted, it's not even conditioning, it's a deep-rooted need to belong, which means, in a lot of cases, making sure you continue to be liked.

Making sure you continue to fit in with the crowd, because if you didn't belong, if our ancestors didn't belong, if they were cast out, there's a risk to their survival, right?

So it's not just, it's not just a matter of overcoming this, like, I don't know, conditioning to, like, to say no, or to, you know, to say no.

Yeah, it's, it's actually deep rooted. It's, it's in our DNA. Yeah, to not want to share a political opinion or to not want to share, to not want to rock the boat to not, you know, so there's, it goes way deeper than I think what most people out there, including myself until recently believed.

@55:26 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. And we'll get, I have one more story I want to share just to talk about the signs and then talk about some of the symptoms, but that is one of the root causes of people pleasing.

It's partially, not for everyone, but for some people that need to belong overrides their ability to say no or disappoint people or say something that's, that they want to say, but can't.

Yep.

@55:56 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Another way that it can show up.

@55:58 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And so this is. Like I've been studying this in myself for 15 years. So this was back in 2012 and I was still working in corporate.

I got this new job at Nestle and I was supposed to implement a new change process, a new planning process.

And so I was like a project manager managing this whole change process across the entire organization. And what I was doing, what I started by doing is getting a lot of opinions.

How's it working now? What's working? What's not working? And that was good to start that way. However, I kept doing that.

Every time I was going to implement or roll out a next part of it, I spent so much time.

I called it politicking.

@56:48 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Like I was getting buy-in is the way I thought of it.

@56:51 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And then one day I was talking to one of the directors about this thing and what I was doing.

And he said, Jen. Stop surveying people and go do it.

@57:06 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And it went, what?

@57:08 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And that was when this huge penny dropped out of the sky that I was like, oh my goodness, I am people-pleasing and this is pervading every aspect of my life.

@57:22 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@57:23 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Like how I show up in everything I do. That wasn't about saying yes or no to anything. It wasn't setting a boundary, but it was.

And it was making me so busy and it was slowing me down.

@57:34 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Like I was so busy talking to people, I was making them more busy than they needed to be because they were coming to meetings with me.

@57:42 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And it was slowing me down because I wouldn't just make a decision because I was trying to find some sort of consensus across everybody, which of course across, there were 80 plus, there was 120 people actually who were involved in this process.

@57:57 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. Directly involved.

@58:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Let alone all the others that it was like, I was trying to get everybody to buy in and they weren't, that was never going to happen.

@58:06 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

No, of course not.

@58:08 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So those are some examples of how it can show up. And then Sheri, wanted to touch on some of the symptoms of it before we get into the root causes.

@58:20 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@58:21 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Because there's very distinct ways that it feels in the body that you might not be recognizing. And this took longer for me to recognize in myself.

Number one is resentment. Oh yeah.

@58:41 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@58:43 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So if you are resenting the 8 million demands on your time or resenting like the person who's asking.

@58:54 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. We were just talking about this. Like I have, you know. When someone calls me sometimes and it's somebody that I don't have the time to talk to at that point, I resent them.

I'm like, why are you calling me? And I caught myself one day. was like, this person is just calling me when it suits them.

I don't have to pick up the phone right now. I don't have to resent them. But that was what it was, was this – I don't know.

I think it was resentment. I was annoyed. Like, why are you putting me out right now? You're causing me to have to say no and not pick up the phone.

@59:37 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

You know what I bet you even more deeper than that, Sheri, is that – so you didn't pick up the phone.

But there's a little bit of guilt that you didn't pick up the phone. Does that resonate? And now you're resenting her because she made – because she, quote unquote, made you

You feel guilty.

@1:00:02 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. We don't like feeling guilt, right?

@1:00:04 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So now you're a bad person because you didn't pick up the phone and talk to your friend at the moment she called when you happened to be busy, which is a perfectly good excuse to not pick up the phone.

@1:00:16 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yep. Well, and it's, it happened. I mean, I hear a lot of people talking about how they don't want to talk to their moms or they don't want to talk to, you know, there's, there's, if you're busy with something, then it could be anybody.

@1:00:33 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah.

@1:00:33 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And yet this resentment comes out, this guilt. You made me feel guilty. You're absolutely right. Guilt over not being at the phone.

And then. Yeah.

@1:00:44 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So the guilt, like women talk to me about the guilt all the time. They're just like, I feel, I feel guilty every time I set a boundary.

And beneath that are some other things. And one is that you resent somebody because of the guilt. They have so supposedly put on you.

Yeah. And the guilt itself is coming from this little voice that told you in your childhood to be kind or something like that.

So resentment and guilt are two of the biggest things that people talk about. And then envy.

@1:01:27 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I was just about to say that, actually. Because another Brene Brown, I wish I had the definition in front of me.

In Atlas of the Heart, she describes envy and resentment. And we think of resentment as closely related to anger.

And her research showed that it's actually more closely related to envy.

@1:01:55 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Mm-hmm.

@1:01:57 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And we resent, you know, when... someone, especially, you know, there's those people who just are willing to ask for anything.

@1:02:05 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yes. I know one of those. She's in my room.

@1:02:09 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I think we all have one of those in our life. Someone who's just, they'll just, they have no qualms about asking for what they want.

And the way that Brene Brown describes resentment is, I think what she said was, you're lying on the couch and relaxing, and I don't feel like I can do that.

So, you know, the person who is willing to ask for what they want, we resent them because we actually envy that they're able to do that.

It's so interesting.

@1:02:48 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. Yeah. It's very possible. So those are the three biggest emotions that you might be feeling. There's, there's others too, but you might be feeling in your body when you are people pleasing.

Yep.

@1:03:03 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And how does, you were telling me earlier that this shows up differently in midlife than in younger years. What's the difference?

How does this look different?

@1:03:14 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Well, the reason that it shows up in midlife, so like it becomes more loud in midlife. Like the resentment feels stronger.

The guilt feels stronger. However, sometimes it's shame. Like it's not actually guilt sometimes that women feel. It's like they actually feel like, I used to feel this, that I was a bad person.

Like I am being unchristian for being unkind to this person for saying no or for declining something.

@1:03:47 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@1:03:47 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Or for leaving the party early or, you know, stuff like that. And so there can be a lot of shame around that too.

So actually that's another, that's a cause actually of people pleasing. don't want to feel all of those emotions. And in midlife, those emotions become stronger.

First reason is when our estrogen starts to decline, physiologically, our bodies are telling us that nurturing time is over.

We don't have to be so nurturing to others, right? And so if you've spent your life serving other people, suddenly when that hormone drops, it becomes less tolerable to keep serving everybody else and putting them first.

It's like what we talked about in our last episode. Episode 12. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So there's a physiological change in your body that makes people pleasing.

It makes it less tolerable to please others. And to serve others because your body literally doesn't want to anymore.

It's telling you that time of your life is over. And then the hormonal fluctuations sometimes can make it harder for us to remain calm and to control our emotions.

@1:05:19 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. then the emotions become a little more explosive.

@1:05:23 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So when you hold in too many no's and say yes to too many things, suddenly you say no to something and it comes out angry instead of, because you've been holding in all this resentment for so long and things become less tolerable that suddenly it can become explosive rage.

@1:05:45 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. Totally. Totally. Yeah. Or irritation or, or, you know, some of that feeling like, why are you asking me?

Like, don't ask me because now you've made me feel like the response comes out.

@1:06:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So showing that energy, giving out that energy. Yeah. So then the other physiological reason is that because our cortisol isn't, listeners, you'll have to go back to previous episodes when we explain the effects of cortisol and how hormones act as a buffer to cortisol.

Now that we don't have that buffer anymore, our cortisol is raised. So we are more stressed and less able to cope with 8 million demands.

So in midlife, it all starts to feel overwhelming.

@1:06:41 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. I think a lot of women feel that way. We've heard them talk about it.

@1:06:47 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. They tell us in our program. So there's physiological reasons why people-pleasing has to come, it sort of comes to a head.

In midlife. And then the other reason is that if you have been a people pleaser all your life, you're just freaking tired of it.

@1:07:10 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@1:07:10 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Like it's become exhausting and you're just like, I got to a point when I was like, you know, I don't want to give a what other people think anymore.

But then, then it was so hard to actually do it.

@1:07:27 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. We get tired of ourselves, but then we don't actually know how to change it.

@1:07:33 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

@1:07:36 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And then, okay.

@1:07:37 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So last reason why it comes up in midlife specifically is those emotions. So we, as I just said, we people please to avoid those emotions.

I don't like those are like impermissible emotions. I don't want to feel anger. I don't want to feel resentment.

I don't want to upset anybody. I don't want We don't guilty. We don't want to feel those emotions. So we, people please to avoid those emotions.

@1:08:06 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

That was so, that was such an aha moment for me when, I don't know whether it was you who said it to me years ago.

And I was just like, what? This is what, it would just made so much sense that I would say yes, because I'm avoiding an emotion.

When we think we're saying yes, because why do we think we're saying yes? We think we're saying yes, because we're trying to please somebody because we want, we don't want to disappoint them, but it's not about them.

Actually, it's about us and our own emotions. Yeah.

@1:08:45 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

People pleasing has nothing to do with the other person and everything to do with the emotion that you feel when you displease them.

And you know what? I want to say It's not about pleasing them necessarily. I still don't like annoying people.

@1:09:07 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I don't like it when people are annoyed with me or irritated by me.

@1:09:11 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

But think about it in a work situation. You're not necessarily trying to please your boss or please the executive or whoever, shareholders.

Um, you are, there's, there's like some underlying things that you're trying to avoid. And usually it's, I don't want to lose my job.

Like it's fears.

@1:09:34 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. It's not always trying to please somebody.

@1:09:37 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

It's avoiding something by making that person happy. Right.

@1:09:44 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Doing what they want. Yeah, it totally makes sense. I had to think about that for a minute when you first said it to me.

I think it was you. Because it's so different from what. Like, really – all the – like, people talk a lot about people-pleasing out on social media and all the places.

And it's always about, well, I don't want to disappoint this other person in front of me. So it's about their feelings.

And when you flip that on its head and start thinking about it as it's not about the other person at all, it's actually about avoiding your own emotions.

I just want to drive this home because it's such an important point that I don't – like, most people are not thinking about it this way.

@1:10:41 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

No. And when you think about it that way, people-pleasing is actually very selfish.

@1:10:46 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yes.

@1:10:47 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Because all you're doing is trying to selfishly avoid your own emotions that you don't want to feel. Yeah.

@1:10:53 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Which, okay, dear listener, you might resist this because it forces you. You to look at yourself and how this might actually be a selfish act is to avoid these, the emotions, the feelings of guilt or shame or whatever's coming up.

@1:11:11 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So, right, because our society praises the woman who serves everybody else and does it all and the super mom.

So we see people pleasing in service as virtuous.

@1:11:24 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yes, exactly. And so if you're not, if you're actually doing this because of something within yourself, then suddenly this is no longer selfless.

It's no longer a virtue. And that's going to be hard to swallow.

@1:11:42 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Well, and it's never a virtue, especially if you're feeling resentment. Like if you say yes to something and you go do something, like let's say it's a party invitation and you go to the party and you don't want to be there.

You're not actually doing anyone any service. Like you're not being kind because you're. You don't want to be there.

@1:12:01 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. The frequency of the party.

@1:12:05 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. And then if that causes resentment between you and that person, then you're not being kind to them anyway.

@1:12:14 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We talked about that a lot in the program that I was running for childless women because most of them don't want to go to a baby shower.

I still don't want to go to a baby shower. I never liked baby showers, but I always felt like I needed to say yes.

I got to show up for my friend. And it wasn't necessarily even that I, like in the moment, I wouldn't have pinpointed that I felt resentful towards my friend because I wasn't resentful towards my friend.

I was actually resentful for whoever it was that created baby showers. Like whoever decided we need to have baby showers and this is how they need to look.

Like, you know, we need to play these silly games. And, you if it was just going to a party and some cake and opening up some gifts, like big deal.

But it's the whole culture around it that I started to get resentful towards. And what I said to them, to my childless clients who were complaining about not wanting to go, but feeling like they should, if you're not showing up with the energy of someone who wants to be there, then you're not showing up for your friend.

@1:13:33 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. So you might as well not be there. No, exactly.

@1:13:39 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And there's ways around it. Like, you can always do, I mean, when it comes to a baby shower, like, there and have a coffee with her on, like, one-on-one.

@1:13:51 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Oh, yeah. I know. Lots of ways around all the things that we say yes to. Yes. Yeah, exactly. So what causes this?

@1:14:03 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

going, Jen. Yeah.

@1:14:07 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay, so these emotions that you're feeling, understanding those emotions actually is the first step to understanding why you people please and why you can't stop.

So most women, at least the ones that become clients of mine, are trying to will themselves to stop people pleasing.

@1:14:28 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, will themselves into saying no, will themselves into speaking their mind.

@1:14:33 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Whatever it is. And even if they're self-aware enough to know that they please others because of something that happened in their childhood, or not necessarily even one event, but like the way they were raised.

Most women, I bet you if you're listening to this, you already know that you're people pleasing. If you're a people pleaser, you're doing it because you're trying to prove.

And that might be because you were trying to get love from a parent as a child.

@1:15:09 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. Trying to get their approval, their approval.

@1:15:13 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. So lots of, lots of women tell me like, yep, my dad always said, like, if I got a 90% on my, oh, that's more perfectionism, but I got a 90% on my exam, he'd say, where's the other 10% and that will lead to perfectionism, which is another one of these coping strategies we're talking about today.

But it also leads to pleasing. Like I can never please him. So I have to try harder to please him.

@1:15:38 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@1:15:39 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So lots of women, you might be already aware that this comes from your upbringing in some way. And so it can come from like trying to avoid criticism from a parent or trying to get their love, trying to get approval, acceptance, avoid rejection.

And on the other side of the coin, trying to manage their emotions, like trying to make sure that they don't get angry at you.

Yes. So all of those kinds of childhood experiences can lead you to be, you know, somewhere on the spectrum of a people pleaser, because that's what you've learned is be kind to everybody else.

I need, it's not safe. So people pleasing is the way I should backtrack here. We call people pleasing a midlife coping strategy, because it is the way that your brain has trained itself to stay safe, to cope with life, to navigate through life.

And staying safe could be from those things I've just said, from stay from criticism, punishment, things like that, and to also get love.

@1:16:58 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Right. Which was a requirement when you were a child. You had to, or you wouldn't survive. So survival.

@1:17:07 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. And to not be abandoned.

@1:17:13 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Like we need love.

@1:17:14 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

We physiologically need love. There's studies that show this. We need love to survive. Like we need hugs. We need touch.

And we can't be abandoned either because that's obviously certain death. Maybe not today, but evolutionary. So that is the biggest reason among women who people please that that's where it comes from.

There are other ways too though.

@1:17:48 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

You kind of cut out there for a second. So I'm not sure where to go next.

@1:17:54 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Okay. So I'm saying there are, there are other ways too. So what?

@1:18:00 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

What are some of those other ways?

@1:18:03 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Societal conditioning that tells girls to be nice and to be kind. Little girls are raised differently. Like we all talk about this, raised differently from boys.

Yeah, societal conditioning that praises busyness, that praises, lost my train of thought, that praises the woman who serves, the giving woman, the giving mother, the perfect wife, all of that.

@1:18:38 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I have a story on that, Jen, that was so impactful for me. I was standing talking to a friend of mine, and his mother had passed away recently.

And he was one of four boys, so family of six. With four boys, husband and mother, and he, it broke my heart because he talked about his mother with such reverence and this sort of far away smile on his face.

But what really broke my heart was that what he talked about was how selfless his mother was, how she never, she never did anything for herself was the way he said it.

But she, she spent all her time taking care of us, never did anything for herself. And he said it was such reverence.

Yeah. That I just thought, oh my gosh, she never had any time for herself.

@1:19:55 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Mm-hmm. And it's that martyring. Yep.

@1:20:01 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Quite often, it's certainly not always the male counterpart of our society, but quite often it is.

@1:20:12 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Well, how many times do you see that written in an obituary?

@1:20:15 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. She was a selfless woman.

@1:20:17 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And that subliminally tells us that that's what we need to strive for. So these are layers of subconscious beliefs and patterns that we're talking about here.

@1:20:32 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, nobody comes right out and says, you need to serve everybody around you. Your kids come first. All these other people come first.

Although I do think sometimes people say, no, your kids come first. Um, but it's the subliminal message that we get from the obituaries.

The, you know, she never, never did anything for herself. She did everything for everyone else.

@1:20:58 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Mm-hmm. Mm Yeah. So our society keeps telling us that we need to be serving everybody else and that everybody else, women come last and moms come even more last.

So if we come last, then everybody else has to be put before us. Right. So this will not affect you, listener, if you don't subscribe to those beliefs, ascribe to those beliefs.

But if you have internalized this societal conditioning, then it's going to be like that little voice that sits on your shoulder and tells you, you should be doing this.

You should be doing that.

@1:21:51 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And most people aren't even aware that that that we have a little voice, you know, over the shoulder telling us you should be doing this and that.

We're not aware of the beliefs that are underlying all of this.

@1:22:04 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Well, you know what? I don't want to, like, that's not your fault. It's not that we're not aware. It's that we have been so trained to listen to that voice of should that we no longer know the difference.

So I was a people, yeah, like, I was a people pleaser for so long that I didn't even know what I wanted anymore.

@1:22:36 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Even if I was just choosing a restaurant to go for dinner, I'd like, I don't know what I feel like.

@1:22:42 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

What do I feel like eating?

@1:22:44 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I'd wait for the other person to suggest a restaurant for the longest time in my life.

@1:22:50 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. So it's all this subconscious stuff that leads to people pleasing. And understanding. understanding. understanding. Until you deal with and release, like the subconscious stuff, and release some of those limiting beliefs and identities, like I'm a super mom, is an identity.

And if you can't shed that identity, you will continue to serve everybody else before you.

@1:23:21 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And that super mom, I've heard, I've heard, so women will say that to me about someone else. You know, they're talking about how someone else is a super mom.

And, oh, I don't know how they do it, but there's this reverence for them. And I can tell you, they're not a super mom.

They're the same as everybody else. They're just portraying an identity.

@1:23:49 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So one of things I want exhausted behind the scenes.

@1:23:52 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@1:23:53 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And because of all of this conditioning, there might be some listeners. Who are thinking, yeah, right. I'm never going to get rid of this.

Like it's impossible. And my job demands it. And I have all these demands on my life. And there's two things I want to say about that.

One is I have seen it possible to not people please. Like I have a friend in this town who it looks sometimes on the outside, like she's super woman.

Like she is involved in all kinds of things. She's, she's got four kids. She, um, she's constantly running kids around and doing stuff.

So it looks like she's got it all together. And, but I also know that she takes many vacations with just her and her husband.

@1:24:47 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Um, like she's not, and she says no to plenty of things when she doesn't want to. Right.

@1:24:54 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

She has, I mean, she has to, um, because she feels worthy of. But she doesn't, she's not doing this stuff because she's trying to please other people.

She's doing it because she enjoys it.

@1:25:09 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Even just, you know, we've got a retreat coming up, two of them. And having been a participant on a retreat before you and I host this one, I distinctly recall all the mothers on the retreat that I went to talking about how they felt all this mom guilt because they were there on their own and the kids stayed home with the dad or the grandparent or someone else.

And they felt all this guilt for taking that time for themselves. And I got to think that that is a huge reason why women say no to retreats when they should actually say yes.

Like there's an example of the opposite. That saying no to something when you really want to say yes.

@1:26:05 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Because we're told that putting yourself first feels selfish, is selfish.

@1:26:10 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And so you feel, they talk about it as feeling guilty, but what they're really feeling is selfish and being selfish is shameful.

Exactly. Like we look down upon selfish people.

@1:26:22 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

That's, we judge them.

@1:26:26 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@1:26:28 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So the last thing we want to feel is I'm selfish and I'm ashamed about it. Like shame is the worst emotion to feel.

@1:26:39 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

It's actually on the emotional frequency scale, it's a lower frequency than grief. So we actually avoid it more than we avoid grief.

@1:26:50 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

That's amazing. Not surprising though. So I want to say that it is possible because I've seen it happen. And this woman.

So also owns a very successful business. So, and then, what was the other thing I wanted to say? If you're saying, oh, it's like, it's not, I said, the other thing that I wanted to say that is possible is that when you are looking around you at your situation and thinking there's just too much, it's impossible for me to stop.

It's impossible for me to say no. I couldn't say no to that project at work. I couldn't say no to whatever.

When you start shedding these underlying beliefs, it actually helps you in your work and in your life to choose more appropriately what to say yes to.

So you actually, at work, you end up being more strategic. Instead of saying yes to everything, you say to the things that are really going to move.

Then going

@1:28:01 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

It also allows you to, it forces the person asking to also reevaluate. So I noticed this when I started, I was still working in the corporate world up until a couple of years ago, and I was part-time.

And so I really, there were times when I was working full-time hours, early days. I'm working full-time hours, and I'm supposed to be a part-time worker, so that I have time to run my business.

And when I finally started to find my own inner worthiness, I started saying to my boss every time a new project came up, and sometimes, you know, our own, like people, we're just people.

Your boss is just a person. And so they can get caught up in stuff too. So I started just saying to him every time, you know, my plate was full, so every time he had something new.

I started saying, okay, my plate is full, so what should I take off the priority list in order to make room for this?

And it forced him to actually look at what he was asking of me and, oh, okay, where does this fit on the priority list?

And that's not going to get you to lose your job. It's actually probably going to gain you more respect because now you're not just trying to fit everything on your plate.

You're questioning, it's not challenging him or her or whatever. It's not challenging your boss. It's just asking them to think about where does this sit on the priority list?

And most of them actually appreciate that.

@1:29:47 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. Yeah. Now, it's a great reframe. And somebody told me that years ago when I was working. He said, you know, if you, the more people you stand up to and the more people you say no to, the more they respect.

And I saw that happen in the workplace. And at the same time, I still had trouble getting myself to actually do it.

So I think, Sheri, we need to start wrapping this up. I wanted to touch on the spiritual connection and then what to do.

@1:30:18 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

And the connection to the symptoms too, which we haven't talked about yet, Jen. We sort of did.

@1:30:24 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

I guess we did.

@1:30:25 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay. I've about the cortisol. But the nervous, like, let's connect that right now because part of, let's talk about why you can't say no and just summarize that.

So part of, like what I was thinking about, Jen, was the physiological. So we talked about part of why you can't say no is because of the emotions that you feel that you're trying to avoid.

And part of that, and what goes along with that, is when you feel something that you don't want to feel.

Or you're already getting ready to say no when you don't know that's going to be hard or you're not sure how they're going to react.

Your nervous system starts firing up. You're going to release some cortisol. And then you're going to, because your nervous system is so fired up, you also want to calm that.

And what calms your nervous system is saying, yes, oh, okay, I'll do that.

@1:31:25 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Because, yeah, then you're like, oh, okay, that's what's going to keep me safe. Yeah. If there's, so if you, if you have an underlying, like a fear underneath, a fear, a subconscious belief, then your body's going to go into the stress response.

In midlife, the stress response is stronger because we don't have hormones that are buffering it. And the stress response, so fight, flight, freeze, or fawn.

One, people-pleasing tends to be a freeze or a fawn. is stress response. Stress response. Mm-hmm. So we freeze. You kind of get that.

It's almost like a deer in the headlights moment. And before you know it, you said yes.

@1:32:10 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Exactly. And Jen, what about the fawn? I don't know if everybody knows what fawning is.

@1:32:16 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So fawning in nature is if you've ever had a pet or like dogs do this. My dog used to do this all the time.

And she would kind of, she like puts her head down low. If there's like an alpha in the room, the alpha dog, she will be the one that is fawning.

So she will put her head down and sort of submit to the alpha dog showing like I'm the submissive one in the room.

@1:32:42 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Mm-hmm.

@1:32:44 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And you're the opposite in some other occasions, but yeah. So they'll submit. And that's, that is a stress response.

It's like making sure that you stay safe by submitting to the other so you don't get hurt.

@1:32:55 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Right. So we do that too. Yep.

@1:33:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And I used to beat myself up for it. But now that I know that this is just a natural stress response, that I've been taught.

I was taught to submit. Punishment in childhood, especially physical punishment, tells you to submit to anyone who's an alpha.

Yeah. So that's why some kids get bullied because they've been taught to submit. Other kids bully because they've been taught a different coping response.

Their stress response, a more dominant stress response for them is to fight and to bring themselves up by making somebody else lower.

So, yeah, in midlife, when you go into the stress response, then it's going to be very hard to interrupt this pattern.

And you're going to be a recovering people pleaser forever.

@1:33:53 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Right. So Jen- Never actually recovering. Exactly. It's not enough. Just to become aware that you are one, and actually not enough to even just know that, oh, I think this came from these experiences as a child.

@1:34:14 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

No, most of the women who come to me, they know I'm trying to prove myself, or I get this because I'm trying to please my dad, still, at 50 years old.

And that only gets you so far.

@1:34:29 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah.

@1:34:30 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

You have to find the specific occasions and feelings and allow yourself to feel them so that you can release them.

And that's when you actually stop people-pleasing. Suddenly, you'll notice you're not doing it anymore. And yeah, that happened to me.

@1:34:49 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

I was like, what did I just say? Where did this person come from? Who am I?

@1:34:57 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. It's kind of weird, actually.

@1:34:58 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

a person. Yeah. It's such a beautiful thing, though, because you, yeah, it is.

@1:35:03 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Like you don't feel any resistance left in your body. So, and I have to admit, I'm still, I am still recovering in certain instances.

And at the same time, there are so many other cases now that I just go, oh, that felt good.

It feels powerful.

@1:35:20 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yes.

@1:35:21 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

And it feels free.

@1:35:24 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah. Yeah. So, Jen, is there anything else that you want to say before we wrap this up?

@1:35:34 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Well, one of the ways that I want to sum it up is this is like spiritually, and we, we're going to get into this in our upcoming spiritual retreats.

This is, this causes an, a low frequency in your body.

@1:35:57 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Mm-hmm. That is you become.

@1:36:00 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Disconnected, your actions become disconnected to what your soul really wants.

@1:36:07 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yes, we talked about that last week as well.

@1:36:10 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

So understanding, peeling away these layers of what exactly is the feeling I get? What is the narrative in my head of when I'm like, when I'm trying, when I'm pleasing somebody else?

When you peel away those layers, you start to actually know what your soul truly wants. And that feels inspirational.

You start to feel a new desire for life.

@1:36:43 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, that's also liberating.

@1:36:48 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah, you feel inspired.

@1:36:51 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Yeah, it's like these layers are lifted off and you can finally see, oh, this is what I want. This is what life can look like.

It's clarity. It's so many things.

@1:37:05 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. So that's the possibility by taking a spiritual approach. And when you start to do that, your physical symptoms start to subside.

So by doing that work, you're supporting the supplements and the exercise and the diets and everything else you're doing to try to reduce your symptoms.

Doing this work alongside it helps to support that whole process. And you feel better all around.

@1:37:37 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

That's a great way to sum it up, Jen. It's a body, mind, and spirit approach to your health.

@1:37:45 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Yeah. And well-being. Yeah. Okay.

@1:37:50 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

So we also have, so this is one midlife coping strategy. There are five more that we're going to talk about.

So And listener, if you are interested in finding out what is your dominant coping strategy, what's the one that's keeping you busy, potentially stuck, we've got a new quiz out.

We're going to drop the link in the show notes, go take the quiz so you can find out what is your most dominating midlife coping strategy, and then we can help you start to change that.

@1:38:32 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

Awesome, Cher.

@1:38:36 - Sheri Johnson (Sheri Johnson)

Okay, I think that's a wrap for today. Come back next week. We're going to be talking more about those other five coping strategies.

And share this with a friend who you know is a people pleaser. All right, that's all for now.

@1:38:50 - Jennifer Reimer (virtuousradicals.com)

See you next week. All right.